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Neunerprobe

English translation: rule of thumb

06:43 Apr 23, 2020
German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / It's about joint liability in car crashes involving multiple cars (Massenkarambolage)
German term or phrase: Neunerprobe
For more context: 2. Blosse Teilhaftung bei additiver Kausalität
Der eingetretene Schaden resp. Verletzungserfolg kann sich auch aus mehreren selbständigen Teilwirkungen zusammensetzten. Letzteres haben wir vor uns, wenn durch verschiedene Unfälle unterschiedliche Körperteile verletzt werden, zunächst z.B. der Arm und dann das Bein. Oder im eingangs geschilderten Fallbeispiel mit den Bauschäden, wenn die Schädigungen an der Liegenschaft auf die einzelnen Bauvorhaben zurückzuführen sind, also nichts miteinander zu tun haben. Als Neunerprobe gilt: Denkt man die einzelnen Ursachen weg, so entfällt nicht der Gesamterfolg, sondern nur ein Teil der Verletzungsfolgen resp. des Schadens.

I think it means something like: Check your P's and Q's, but I may be wrong.
Haigo Salow
United States
Local time: 03:37
English translation:rule of thumb
Explanation:
rule of thumb
a broadly accurate guide or principle, based on practice rather than theory.

The term 'Neunerprobe' seems to be used in this case as a way of expressing 'the general benchmark' for establishing a certain principle.
Selected response from:

Chris Pr
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:37
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2rule of thumb
Chris Pr
3 +1sum-of-its-parts test
Adrian MM.
4test
Cillie Swart
2 +1litmus test
Steffen Walter
3a handy test
Michael Martin, MA
Summary of reference entries provided
Zum Hintergrund ...
Steffen Walter

Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
sum-of-its-parts test


Explanation:
I'm unsure Steffen 'litmus test' as a real or decisively indicative test (OED) is the same as a 'ballpark figure' or 'gues(s)timate'- query: a ninepin bowl-park test....

The context of the question suggests a 'novus actus interveniens' approach. There are contributory factors, but the end-result remains the same and it is for judges, like the late English Judge Lord Denning, to apportion blame for the accident e.g. 60/40% or 70/30%,

Example sentence(s):
  • Is 2+2 = 4? Is 1+1+1+1 = 4 ? Actually, the sum is equal to its parts. In math, this is pretty easy to see. But in many other areas, it is not. Is a car the sum of its parts? Is water the sum of its parts? Is a human the sum of its parts?

    Reference: http://www.quora.com/Is-the-whole-really-greater-than-the-su...
Adrian MM.
Austria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 119

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Steffen Walter: Good thinking, Adrian.
5 mins
  -> Thanks and danke schön, Steffen! I think that, in EN contract law, this would be a 'blue-pencil test' namely severability of (nugatory) clauses. Otherwise, I have - since time immemorial - preferred flotte Berliner Bienen to be 'dressed up to the nines'.
neutral  philgoddard: I can't make head or tail of this, but I wonder if you're confusing "novus" (new) and "novem" (nine).
2 hrs
  -> I'd never thought of equating - with the number nine - the idea of a 'new intervening act' in the ENG law of tort: namely a contributory factor to an inexorable result e.g. an ambulance negligently missing accident victims, but full marks for the try!
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
litmus test


Explanation:
Posted upon Phil's encouragement, but I am by no means sure if this really hits the mark ;-)

Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 12:37
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 438

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard
19 hrs
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
rule of thumb


Explanation:
rule of thumb
a broadly accurate guide or principle, based on practice rather than theory.

The term 'Neunerprobe' seems to be used in this case as a way of expressing 'the general benchmark' for establishing a certain principle.

Chris Pr
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:37
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 24
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Cillie Swart: nice one
1 hr
agree  AllegroTrans
13 days
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
test


Explanation:
I would simply use "test" here. As in, "The test is:"

Cillie Swart
South Africa
Local time: 12:37
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 39
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1 day 19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
a handy test


Explanation:
The tricky thing here is that an arithmetical procedure (Neunerprobe = casting out nines) is used in a metaphorical way, as it is in the following passage:
"Tag der Autonomie: Neunerjahre als Neunerprobe...Die Politik hat Lösungen durch Kompromiss erzielt, bei dem auf etwas verzichtet wurde, man jedoch gleichzeitig etwas Wichtiges erhalten habe: nämlich gegenseitiges Vertrauen“, sagte Historiker Carlo Romeo."
https://www.diebaz.com/2019/09/06/tag-der-autonomie-neunerja...

What we have here seems to be a process of elimination and litmus test at the same time. Unfortunately, 'casting out nines' seems to have less potential to become a figure of speech than its German counterpart.  Maybe it's not possible to come up with an English term that contains both ingredients. The best I was able to do was to come up with a workaround and transfer some of the meaning to the rest of the sentence.

Als Neunerprobe gilt: Denkt man die einzelnen Ursachen weg, so entfällt nicht der Gesamterfolg, sondern nur..
=
Here's a handy test: If you set aside all individual factors, this shouldn't impact the overall result but only...

Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 06:37
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 364
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Reference comments


41 mins peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Zum Hintergrund ...

Reference information:
... siehe https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuner-_und_Elferprobe (der Begriff stammt aus der Mathematik)
"Umgangssprachlich wird der Begriff Neunerprobe auch allgemein für eine überschlägige Prüfung von Ergebnissen verwendet."

Im Englischen könnte ich mir hier "litmus test" vorstellen.

Steffen Walter
Germany
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 438

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  philgoddard: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casting_out_nines I would vote for "litmus test" if you posted it.
6 hrs
  -> I did, but I am by no means sure ...
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