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German to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Psychology / art therapy, but general conversation/grammar
German term or phrase:etwas ... etwa
The part that confuses me is the quote within the quote:
Die Bewegungen der Performer werden nicht in ihre Bedeutung aufgefasst, sondern im Einfluss auf das Gefühlsleben der Betrachter. **In diesem Sinne werden Atmosphären als Räume bezeichnet, die „etwas Subjektives, etwa Bestimmungen eines Seelenzustandes“ sind** (Fischer-Lichte, 2011).
My draft for the part between asterisks: "In this sense, atmospheres are referred to as spaces that are 'something subjective, a bit like determinations of a state of mind'".
(Yes, "atmospheres" is a term used in this literature.)
My grammatical question: I have translated "Subjektives" as an adjective, but it is actually a noun. Have I got something wrong here? Perhaps I'm not understanding the difference between "etwas" and "etwa" correctly in this context.
It's "such as" in Fischer-Lichte's book, so I'd use it (see discussion). Also, even if it were etwa in the sense of gleichzusetzen mit, it wouldn't be similar, as has been suggested, IMO. It is what it is. It doesn't have a likeness to something; it's the proper equivalent in a context such as this one.
I hope all that scavenging (haha) for online references helped.
Thanks for all your research, but what I find from my own searches and yours is that Fischer-Lichte uses this idea in many of her books, with formulations that are not identical. The book you cite in English is not the same as the German one that my author cites (she gives the date 2011, but I think that may be a typo for 2001, since that is the only date that is in her bibliography; I have to ask her). The English book you cite is from 2008. And the quotes from her on Google in German start with "NOCH sind die Atmosphären etwas Subjektives, etwa Bestimmungen eines Seelenzustandes...," so that is not "Neither," as the English book has it. I think we've beaten this horse enough!
I got your sentence right here from the actual book, titled "The Transformative Power of Performance: A New Aesthetics" by Erika Fischer-Lichte (2008): "...atmospheres are not objective, like certain properties that things have, and yet they are tangible, belonging to that thing insofar as these things articulate the spheres of their presence through their properties […] Neither are atmospheres something subjective, such as a mental state of mind. And yet, they are of the subject, form a part of it, insofar as they are sensed by people physically present..." https://journals.openedition.org/trans/835?lang=It
It doesn't matter that I quote it from somewhere else. You can check GoogleBooks. But this is not nice. For one, at that point in her book, she's quoting Gernot Boehme(!). You shouldn't quote a quote, as your author seems to have done. Second, it's the direct opposite of what Boehme said ("neither."). Unless I overlooked something, that is called twisting the statement...
Thanks, I'll do so today, even if it's going to be a bit late in the evening.
More important, though, did you see what I added to my post from yesterday at 3:06 in the afternoon? The article I quoted is by Fischer-Lichte(!) and the author you quote seems to have twisted what that person said?!? Or am I wrong? That'd be one of these unforgivable sins in scientific literature.
Please (for once!) put up your helpful response as an "Answer." Otherwise I have to close the question without its going into the Kudoz glossary for posterity.
I agree with Björn: DE: etwa = in etwa (ungefähr), beispielsweise; EN: approximately, for example - (depending on the context).
On a different note, in the sentence: "Die Bewegungen der Performer werden nicht in ihre Bedeutung aufgefasst, sondern im Einfluss auf das Gefühlsleben der Betrachter," it should not read "in ihre" but "in ihrer Bedeutung."
"Die Atmosphären sind so konzipiert weder als etwas Objektives, nämlich Eigenschaften, die die Dinge haben, und doch sind sie etwas Dinghaftes, zum Ding Gehöriges, insofern nämlich die Dinge durch ihre Eigenschaften – [...] – die Sphären ihrer Anwesenheit artikulieren. Noch sind die Atmosphären etwas Subjektives, etwa Bestimmungen eines Seelenzustandes. Und doch sind sie subjekthaft, gehören zu Subjekten, insofern sie in leiblicher Anwesenheit durch Menschen gespürt werden und dieses Spüren zugleich ein leibliches Sich-Befinden der Subjekte im Raum ist." http://doczz.com.br/doc/830299/--universität-zu-köln
If it is related, and I think it is, "so to speak" is really wrong.
Something went wrong here, Susan. What your author quotes is not what the person actually said.
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
No,
14:02 Feb 5, 2019
you do not understand me correctly. The question was whether susan understood etwa and etwas correctly in this context. She does, she did and will continue to do so.
You put it in parentheses and used a participial phrase. You established a causal link where there is none. "Bestimmungen eines Seelenzustandes" is one of many examples of "subjective spaces." If I understand you correctly, the word "determine" should not be included.
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Not wrong,
13:53 Feb 5, 2019
The 'etwa' (so to speak) is just one option of how the spaces can be determined.
The only thing I would change on your rendition is the 'something' "In this sense, atmospheres are referred to as spaces that are 'subjective (things), determining a state of mind, (so to speak)'".
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
46 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
akin to/much like
Explanation: Perhaps this might work.
"In this sense, atmospheres are referred to as spaces of a subjective nature, akin to indications of a state of mind."
Michael Martin, MA United States Local time: 13:31 Works in field Native speaker of: German, English PRO pts in category: 116
It's "such as" in Fischer-Lichte's book, so I'd use it (see discussion). Also, even if it were etwa in the sense of gleichzusetzen mit, it wouldn't be similar, as has been suggested, IMO. It is what it is. It doesn't have a likeness to something; it's the proper equivalent in a context such as this one.
I hope all that scavenging (haha) for online references helped.
Björn Vrooman Local time: 19:31 Native speaker of: German PRO pts in category: 8
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peer agreement (net): +2
