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Form und Norm

English translation: precepts and principles

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Form und Norm
English translation:precepts and principles
Entered by: Timoshka

21:19 Mar 25, 2021
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Religion / German Evangelical Lutheran Church
German term or phrase: Form und Norm
From the parish constitution of a German Evangelical Lutheran Church in Nebraska, dated 1872:

“In unserer Gemeinde werden alle canonische Bücher des Alten u. Neuen Testaments als Gottes geoffenbartes Wort anerkannt und sämmtliche symbolische Bücher der evang. luth. Kirche, als die aus dem Worte Gottes gezogene Form und Norm, nach welcher, weil sie aus Gottes Wort genommen, nicht nur die Lehre in unserer Gemeinde geführt und geprüft, sonder nauch alle vorfallende Lehr- und Religionsstreitigkeiten geurtheilt und regulirt werden sollen. Diese sind: die drei Hauptsymbole, die ungeänderte Augsburgische Confession, derselben Apologie, die schmalkadischen Artikel, Dr. Luthers Kleiner und großer Catechismus, die Concordien Formel u. die Visitationsartikel.”

My tentative translation:

"In our parish, all of the canonical books of the Old and New Testaments are recognized as God’s revealed Word, and all of the symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church are recognized as [die aus dem Worte Gottes gezogene Form und Norm], according to which, since they are taken from God’s Word, not only the teaching in our parish should be conducted and tested, but also any disputes of doctrine and religion that occur should be judged and regulated. The latter are: the Three Chief Symbols, the Unaltered Augsburg Confession, the Apology of the same, the Smalcald Articles, Dr. Luther’s Smaller and Larger Catechism, the Formula of Concord and the Articles of Visitation."

I can't seem to track down exactly how "die aus dem Worte Gottes gezogene Form und Norm" is used in this context... Any suggestions?
Timoshka
Local time: 20:47
precepts and principles
Explanation:
"...precepts and principles derived from God's word...": Alliteration achieves a similar effect as rhyme.
https://www.growingchristians.org/devotions/precept-or-princ...

Also, the translation looks better and is easier to understand if we turn passive into active voice:

"In our parish, we acknowledge all of the canonical books of the Old and New Testaments as God’s revealed Word, and all of the symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church as precepts and principles derived from God's word by which - since they are taken from God’s Word - we should not only conduct and examine the teaching in our parish but also judge and settle any disputes of doctrine and religion."



Selected response from:

Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 21:47
Grading comment
Vielen Dank!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2rule and standard
Eric Zink
3 +2precepts and principles
Michael Martin, MA
3Holy Writ
Lancashireman
3 -1Rules and Tools
Adrian MM.


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


47 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
die aus dem Worte Gottes gezogene Form und Norm
Holy Writ


Explanation:
I don't think we have a corresponding rhyming couplet in EN. I think you can omit the second of the three references to "Gottes Wort".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2021-03-25 22:40:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Some non-rhyming couplets:
word and deed
form and content


Lancashireman
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:47
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 38

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  AllegroTrans: This works although I don't think it's necessary to mimic the rhyming couiplet
1 hr
disagree  Eric Zink: This is not a reference to the Bible (which is what "Holy Writ" would refer to). This is a reference to "sämmtliche symbolische Bücher der evang. luth. Kirche". And you can't drop the second and third references and maintain the meaning.
3 hrs
  -> There you go again, Eric.
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Rules and Tools


Explanation:
'There is no rhyming couplet to reflect the source text'.

1. There really isn't
2. There is a fuzzy match
3. There is a direct hit, but 'not many people know that'.

Example sentence(s):
  • The Rules and Tools of a Revelator: Chief Apostle, Joseph Prude

    Reference: http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_1...
Adrian MM.
Austria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  AllegroTrans: Apart from there being no need to imitate the rhyming couplet, this doesn't fit either the register or the era
12 hrs
  -> oh dear - I suggest you take a closer look and rail at the tautologous rule-and-standard + precepts-and-principles answers instead
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
rule and standard


Explanation:
I wouldn't focus on the rhyme in German.

The reference here is not to the Bible (which is what Lutherans would generally mean by "Wort Gottes"), but to the Lutheran books derived from it ("sämmtliche symbolische Bücher der evang. luth. Kirche"). Religious books are often said to provide a "rule of life" or "standard for living" (a Lutheran publication is apparently called the "Lutheran Standard"), and these two terms can be nicely combined.


    https://spldecatur.org/tag/rule-of-life/
    https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/007285641
Eric Zink
Local time: 03:47
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  AllegroTrans
10 hrs
agree  Johanna Timm, PhD
15 hrs
neutral  Lancashireman: This might have found more favour with the asker if you hadn't been quite so dogmatic elsewhere on the page. It is a massive turn-off for askers.
1 day 11 hrs
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1 day 5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
precepts and principles


Explanation:
"...precepts and principles derived from God's word...": Alliteration achieves a similar effect as rhyme.
https://www.growingchristians.org/devotions/precept-or-princ...

Also, the translation looks better and is easier to understand if we turn passive into active voice:

"In our parish, we acknowledge all of the canonical books of the Old and New Testaments as God’s revealed Word, and all of the symbolical books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church as precepts and principles derived from God's word by which - since they are taken from God’s Word - we should not only conduct and examine the teaching in our parish but also judge and settle any disputes of doctrine and religion."





Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 21:47
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20
Grading comment
Vielen Dank!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lancashireman: Very good, Michael. As you say, alliteration is always a fair trade for rhyme.
10 hrs
  -> Thanks, Andrew.
agree  TonyTK: This is good.
1 day 6 hrs
  -> You, too, Tony.
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