entfallen

English translation: in the absence of

14:00 Mar 29, 2019

German to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - SAP

German term or phrase: entfallen

Hi guys,

Hopefully you can help me out with this one. Struggling with "Entfallen ... Währungsdifferenzen" in particular:

"Entfallen bei den Zahlungen Währungsdifferenzen, werden die in der jeweiligen Gesellschaft fix auf eine Kostenstelle kontiert."

Thanks,

Gavin

Gavin O'Leary KudoZ activity Questions: 85 (3 open) (10 closed without grading) Answers: 0 Ireland
Local time: 20:55

English translation:in the absence of

Explanation:
In the absence of currency differences the payments will be posted as fixed for the cost center of the respective company.
Oder: If there are are no currency differences...
Oder: Without currency differences...

Selected response from:

Birgit Gläser
Germany
Local time: 21:55

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +4

in the absence of

Birgit Gläser

arise

Cillie Swart

currency differences resulting/arising from payments

Michael Martin, MA

4 -1

apply, occur

philgoddard

in the event of ... lapsing

Sebastian Witte

Discussion entries: 12

Björn Vrooman

00:51 Mar 30, 2019

I don't really like "in absence of," so I didn't agree there.

Just remembered that SAP FI (like MS business software) uses the term local currency (as opposed to Fremdwährung): https://www.erpsuites.com/sap/currency-types-in-sap-fi

So, if you want to turn it around in some fashion, then why not start off by saying:
"Transactions/payments in local currency will..."

Cf
https://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/other/gep_f...
https://help.sap.com/doc/saphelp_sfin100/1.10/en-US/5c/f1c55...

Björn Vrooman

Michael

21:58 Mar 29, 2019

To make it clear: I talked to a (very knowledgeable) family member on the phone and the sentence did not invite any confusion and it was immediately clear to the person I was talking to what this was about. So while the position of "die" may look odd to you, it apparently isn't. As Steffen pointed out, this is an ellipsis, which happens quite often in such cases. Heck, I used to work at IT companies; I should know myself how cryptic some of this can sound to those not in the know.

"On the other hand, it doesn't seem completely unheard of that amounts resulting from currency differences end up in a special account or cost center."

I'm not disputing that, but this is exactly the point! No one asked what happens with those payments that involve currency transactions. How do you know that particular point isn't being discussed like three sentences later or even prior to this statement?

Best

Michael Martin, MA

United States

I still think

21:46 Mar 29, 2019

this may be inconclusive. "Absence" seems correct on its face but that also hinges on the proper use of the preposition and requires us to assume the verb has been used as intended. The slightly irritating use and placement of "die" is not confidence-inspiring in that regard. On the other hand, it doesn't seem completely unheard of that amounts resulting from currency differences end up in a special account or cost center. See link below:
"Die Differenz kommt jeweils auf ein Konto Währungsdifferenzen" https://www.buhl.de/wiso-software/forum/index.php?thread/648...

Björn Vrooman

Ah, thanks.

20:11 Mar 29, 2019

Also, it seems I have to post two disagreements at once.

Well, I'll try it this way @Michael:
Your answer has nada to do with the question. And as it was just explained to me on the phone, I don't think "fix kontiert" in your sentence is correct either. This all has little to do with what Gavin needs to express.

Still, enjoy your evening.

Best

Steffen Walter

Germany

Yes, seems like it

20:06 Mar 29, 2019

We seem to have said/viewed the same thing in different words/from different angles. Any reference back to "Zahlungen" (which should actually be correct, I agree) would of course have to be expressed by "jene", strictly/formally speaking. The point I was trying to make was just that "die(se)" was used erroneously instead of "jene". Else, you'd have to spell out "die Zahlungen" in this position of the German sentence, in accordance with my initial "word missing" assumption.

Björn Vrooman

Hello Steffen

19:53 Mar 29, 2019

Maybe we misunderstand each other?

What I meant was you can say: "Entfallen bei den Zahlungen Währungsdifferenzen, werden jene in der jeweiligen Gesellschaft fix auf eine Kostenstelle kontiert."

-> Zahlungen fix kontiert

Works fine. Just asked the banker in our family.

And the first answer is so wrong that I really wonder why no one has disagreed so far.

Best wishes

Steffen Walter

Germany

@Björn

19:23 Mar 29, 2019

Regarding "diese", this is exactly why I've included "erroneously" in my comment. Happens all too often.

Björn Vrooman

Any reason...

19:17 Mar 29, 2019

...why Phil's answer hasn't attracted at least three disagreements by now?

Telling writeaway that the "reference says it can mean allotted, apportioned, or accounted for" is just digging yourself deeper into a hole. The dictionary meaning only applies if it's auf jdn./etw. entfallen--which is clearly not the case here.

I also don't agree, Steffen, that it should be diese. Diese, being the demonstrative pronoun it is, would refer to Währungsdifferenzen, as this is the plural noun closest to it. It should be "jene."

Best wishes

Michael Martin, MA

United States

Should be 'diese'

18:05 Mar 29, 2019

I agree.. but it's probably more common nowadays for people to pepper their written language with colloquialisms..

Steffen Walter

Germany

That's how ...

17:47 Mar 29, 2019

... it should normally be interpreted, Michael, but it might also (erroneously) refer back to "Zahlungen" (and it should be "diese" if we follow this line of thought).

Michael Martin, MA

United States

die refers back to the preceding noun

17:45 Mar 29, 2019

Währungsdifferenzen

Steffen Walter

Germany

There seems to be ...

17:43 Mar 29, 2019

... a word missing after "die" ("... werden die ??? in der jeweiligen Gesellschaft ...").

Answers

6 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

apply, occur

Explanation:
Entfallen is a funny word, because it can mean two opposite things, apply and not apply. Here, because of the context, it's clearly the former.
http://www.dict.cc/?s=entfallen

philgoddard
United States
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Michael Martin, MA

4 mins

neutral

Birgit Gläser: I think you are mixing up "entfallen" with "anfallen"... this is definitely a case of NOT apply/occur

7 mins

neutral

writeaway: Even your dico ref doesn't back the answer. neither does my Langenscheidt.

29 mins

-> My reference says it can mean allotted, apportioned, or accounted for.

disagree

Steffen Walter: You are probably mixing up "entfallen auf" and "entfallen" on its own. / Changed to "disagree" because of the obvious misinterpretation.

3 hrs

disagree

Björn Vrooman: Sorry, Phil, but "die" = "Zahlungen," not currency differences. Your dictionary entry does not support your answer at all. You conveniently leave out the fact that "entfallen" can only mean apply when used transitively. Here, it's an intransitive verb.

5 hrs

11 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +4

in the absence of

Birgit Gläser
Germany
Local time: 21:55
Native speaker of:

German
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

41 mins confidence:

currency differences resulting/arising from payments

Explanation:
Any currency differences resulting from payments will be assigned to a (given) company's permanent cost center.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 48 mins (2019-03-29 14:49:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Just took another look...., I would say that Birgit's version ( "posted as fixed") is more accurate for the second part of the sentence. But on the query part, I still prefer my version.

Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 15:55
Native speaker of:

German,

English
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

neutral

writeaway: as a translation for the verb entfallen???

33 mins

-> Communicative intent is more important than the narrow concept you find in the source text. The point of translation is not to explain the German but to find the most idiomatic way of getting the message across without loss in communication

neutral

philgoddard: I agree with your interpretation, but it's just a different version of my answer. Thanks for agreeing, by the way :-)

2 hrs

-> I liked that you exposed the limitations of dictionaries but getting the meaning right is only a minimum requirement. Can you use apply/occur here in a way that sounds natural?

disagree

Steffen Walter: It's the payments, rather than the currency differences, that are allocated/fixed to a cost centre/center.

5 hrs

-> Okay,I am happy to submit to the combined expertise that has taken sway here but I also noticed that you waffled your own position on the issue a bit

agree

michael10705 (X): I tend to agree and lean toward this meaning that FX differences are being booked to a single, fixed cost center.

4 days

-> Well, it's comforting to know that there are more than two people who read the sentence that way - at least on first glance.

1 day 22 hrs confidence:

arise

Explanation:
Should currency differences arise with regards to payments, they shall be allocated to a cost center in the respective company.

Reference: http://www.linguee.com

Cillie Swart
South Africa
Local time: 21:55
Native speaker of:

English

4 days confidence:

in the event of ... lapsing

Explanation:
In the event of foreign exchange differences in respect of the payments lapsing, these shall be assigned to a fixed cost centre in the respective company.

Question is, have I understood the German word "fix" correctly? This translation (assigned to a fixed cost centre) might work, however, since it says "auf eine Kostenstelle" there, which suggests a bit that one single cost centre "receives"/is used to account for them all. I mean all the currency differences recorded per company, which currency differences are foreign exchange differences, really, hence my translation of that sentence.

Sebastian Witte
Germany
Local time: 21:55
Native speaker of:

German

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entfallen

English translation: in the absence of

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