'Οπου φτωχός κι η μοίρα του

English translation: Misfortunes never come singly

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

Greek term or phrase:	'Οπου φτωχός κι η μοίρα του
English translation:	Misfortunes never come singly
Entered by:	Nick Lingris

00:16 Apr 29, 2005

Greek to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / Proverbs

Greek term or phrase: 'Οπου φτωχός κι η μοίρα του

I don't believe there's an English equivalent. A literal translation could be "Misfortune never leaves the side of a poor man" or "Misfortune dogs him who is down". Two alternatives found in Google are: "No poor man is
relieved of his misfortune" and "A poor man's lot never improves". Any brilliant ideas? Take your time.
misfortune dogs him who is down

Nick Lingris KudoZ activity Questions: 20 (none open) Answers: 5464 United Kingdom
Local time: 11:42

misfortunes never come singly

Explanation:
All from Oxford Dictionary of Proverbs:

It never rains but it pours, or
If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong,
or
Bad things come in threes, or
Misery loves company,

To tell you the truth the proverb in greek does not necessarily have to do with poverty, but with misfortune in general.
Hope I helped

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Note added at 9 days (2005-05-08 16:58:56 GMT) Post-grading
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Σας ευχαριστώ πολύ για την τιμή που μου κάνατε Κύριε Νίκο! Η αλήθεια είναι ότι λίγο-πολύ όλα όσα πρότειναν οι συνάδελφοι ταιριάζουν.

Selected response from:

flipendo
Local time: 13:42

Grading comment

Σας ευχαριστώ όλους για τη συμβολή σας. Προβληματίστηκα ποιο να διαλέξω, μια και συμφωνώ με τα περισσότερα από τα επιχειρήματά σας. Κατέληξα στο “Misfortunes never come singly” (κι ας αντιστοιχεί στο «Ενός κακού μύρια έπονται»), ίσως και στην καθυστερημένη δική μου σκέψη “The sun never shines on the poor” (κι ας αντιστοιχεί, όπως επεσήμανε ο Andras, σε κάποιους φτωχούς που «δεν έχουν στον ήλιο μοίρα»), για μοναδικό λόγο ότι στα περισσότερα αν όχι σε όλα τα παραδείγματα που βρήκα, ταιριάζουν το ένα ή το άλλο απ’ αυτά. Οφείλω ωστόσο να «ανταμείψω» και την Estelle και γιατί πρώτευσε στις ψήφους και γιατί συνδυάζει τους φτωχούς με μια συνηθισμένη παροιμία. Προσωρινό συμπέρασμα: ακριβές αντίστοιχο δεν υπάρχει.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3 +4

Once poor always poor

x-Translator (X)

1 +4

Poor in money, but rich in trouble

Andras Mohay (X)

4 +1

misfortunes never come singly

flipendo

A poor man's lot is tough

Nadia-Anastasia Fahmi

Discussion entries: 6

Non-ProZ.com

19:47 May 7, 2005

Sorry, Estelle, �� ... I owe you one.

Non-ProZ.com

17:54 Apr 29, 2005

Good question, estel377. My query is of a linguistic nature and all context is my target. Ideally, the translation of the proverb, or of any saying of this nature for that matter, (a) should be as close as possible to the original in both the wording and the meaning, (b) should more often than not back-translate to the original, and (c) should not ring false or even awkward to the Anglo-Saxon reader. Tall order! I�m working on a long list of such sayings not to be found in dictionaries and, trust me, there are quite a few posers. As English is not my native language and I�m cooped up in my Drosia house with the Internet as my only window on the world, the translations do not often come naturally to me and have to be the result of long and painful research. So, in advance, lots of thanks to all of you for your help and wonderful contributions, and of course a very happy Easter. Back at my desk on Monday! I could come up with a few more posers like this if you feel like it.

x-Translator (X)

Hi, Niko! Are you looking for a proverb/saying that is common in English? Or will a translation do? A lot will depend on that. Kali Anastasi kai Kalo Pasxa!

17:29 Apr 29, 2005

Andras Mohay (X)

Το τελευταίο είναι περίπου το "δεν έχει στον ήλιο μοίρα"

17:22 Apr 29, 2005

Non-ProZ.com

Extra, extra, read all about it

15:40 Apr 29, 2005

I like "misfortunes never come singly" because it fits in well in most occurrences of the proverb. However, it (as well as "it never rains but it pours" and the like) actually translates the other well-known proverb "�� ". When you translate from English into Greek, you'd be more likely to use "�� ..." as a translation of "Misfortunes..." and of "It never rains..." than "�� ...". And I kept missing the element that this is the lot of the poor man.
So I hit on another idea, the title of an old ballad, "The sun never shines on the poor". Which also seems to fit well in most examples. Do you think this is an interesting tack?

Non-ProZ.com

Extra documentation

13:35 Apr 29, 2005

I'm very happy with the response to this. Let me add some extra documentation.
��: �� : �� .
��-��: �� : �� , �� ...
MEN MAGAZINE: ...� �� ...
�� (31/1/2002): ...�� . �� 1.100 �� . �� .
This all seems to agree with the "misfortune heaped upon misfortune" theory.

Answers

5 hrs confidence:

'Οπου φτωχός κι η μοίρα του A poor man's lot is tough

Explanation:
Another alternative, based on the meaning of the proverb and when it is used.

Nadia-Anastasia Fahmi
Greece
Local time: 13:42
Native speaker of:

Greek,

English
PRO pts in category: 4

12 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +4

'Οπου φτωχός κι η μοίρα του Poor in money, but rich in trouble

Explanation:
Απλή ιδέα για ton εμπλουτισμό του προβληματισμού.

„Poor in money, but/and rich in X” (όπου Χ = time, love, happiness κ.ο.κ.) συνηθίζεται πολύ και rich in trouble(s) επίσης.

Η μόνη γλώσσα στην οποία γνωρίζω παρόμοια παροιμία είναι τα Ουγγρικά και ο/η flipendo έχει δίκιο ότι η παροιμία αναφέρεται μάλλον στην ατυχία (και στα Ουγγρικά, όπου λέμε «τον φτωχό τον τραβάνε ως και τα κλαριά»).

Η ελληνική παροιμία παρουσιάζει ενδιαφέρον, διότι στις γλώσσες της Κεντρικής και Δυτικής Ευρώπης «φτωχός» έχει 2 υποσημασίες που δεν έχει στα Ελληνικά (αν εξαιρέσουμε κλισέ του 19ου αι. όπως «πτωχός διάβολος» που μυρίζουν μεταφρασίλα):

[1] καημένος (αναξιοπαθών)
[2] μακαρίτης (μεταστάς)

Η παροιμία αυτή αποτελεί εξαίρεση.

... She was poor in money, but rich in time. Miserly Meals Overcoming food and money shortages. Moth Invasion A non-toxic solution for a home with little ...
www.stretcher.com/index.cfm

... Paroled for a crime she doesn't regret committing, ex-con turned paparazza Nina Zero is poor in friends, family, and money, but rich in trouble. ...
mostlyfiction.com/sleuths_pb.htm

... Poor in days and rich in trouble; He cometh forth like a flower and fadeth, He fleeth as a shadow and abideth not. ...
www.harvestfields.ca/etexts1/01/54/03.htm

... Orestes : There's not much to spare - but I'm rich in troubles, thanks to the god. Menelaus : What's wrong with you? Has your condition been diagnosed? ...
www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~loxias/orestes.htm

Andras Mohay (X)
Local time: 12:42
Native speaker of:

Hungarian
PRO pts in category: 4

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +4

'Οπου φτωχός κι η μοίρα του Once poor always poor

Explanation:
Although not the exact equivalent, I think it's the closest you can get if you wish to keep the word "poor" in the phrase AND use an expression that all English speakers will understand (and would actually use).

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Note added at 17 hrs 10 mins (2005-04-29 17:27:04 GMT)
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I just thought of this proverb that is used quite a lot here in the States (not sure about Britain though):
\"A poor man is always behind\"
www.countrylinks.biz/freeware/united_states.html
www.kpbsd.k12.ak.us/tustumena/ cowans/Reading/ProverbsMP.htm

x-Translator (X)
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Greek
PRO pts in category: 4

3 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

'Οπου φτωχός κι η μοίρα του

misfortunes never come singly

flipendo
Local time: 13:42
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Greek
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

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'Οπου φτωχός κι η μοίρα του

English translation: Misfortunes never come singly

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