tűzkő és szikra

English translation: flint and spark

08:44 Jul 17, 2012
Hungarian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History / heraldry
Hungarian term or phrase: tűzkő és szikra
Egy kép leírása: Széles karimájú kalapján valószínűleg zománccal díszített, gyöngyökkel keretezett medallion, enseigne csillog, amelyen két egymással szembe fordított C betű királyi koronát fog közre, ez alatt pedig a burgundi hercegek jelvénye, a tűzkő és a szikra látható.

What is the classic English description of the badge of the dukes of Burgundy? I've searched and found several possibilities, no two of which are the same, and none seem to be from a totally reliable source (hát olyan persze nincs is...): flint and spark, firesteel, the plane or "rabot"

The text is to be published in a catalogue intended for art scholars, so they can be expected to cope with the genuine heraldic terms; no lay explanations are necessary.
Richard Robinson
Local time: 06:11
English translation:flint and spark
Explanation:
This portrait of Philip the Good by Rogier van der Weyden shows the Duke wearing the distinctive collar of the Toison d'or. The other image is a detail of a frontispiece of one of Philip's books showing the Duke's arms and again the collar of the Toison d'or. The order's insignia of the Golden Fleece is suspended from a collar decorated with the devices of the ducal house. Since the capture of John of Nevers (the future John the Fearless) by the Turks in 1396, the flint and fire-steel, striking sparks had been the personal livery collar of the Duke's household. The statutes of the Toison d'or specify that every member of the order of the Golden Fleece was required to wear this collar daily. This makes explicit the sovereignty of the Duke over the order and the allegiance of the members of the order to the Duke's household.

http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/arth214_folder/bu...

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Note added at 49 mins (2012-07-17 09:33:17 GMT)
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The original badges of the Golden Fleece featured the Order’s symbol, a ram’s fleece - an allusion to the Burgundian wool trade as well as to the Golden Fleece of Greek mythology - hanging from a shower of sparks or flames emanating from a flint being struck by a fire steel (or briquette). By the nineteenth century the separate elements had become stylised and in Prince Albert’s badge the opals form the centre of the ‘briquette’ and the ‘flint’. The light, original setting of this badge has been adapted to take the opals in the slide, flint and sparks - particularly the middle stone in the flint. The incongruity of this later setting suggests that it may have been adapted from an earlier one. Just as the Prince’s Garter badge was an earlier piece reset for the Queen in 1840, it is possible that this was once the ‘Golden Fleece in brilliants’ sold to Rundell, Bridge & Co. in 1830. Opals were the Prince’s favourite stones (Journal, 4 July 1866). This and a second badge of the Order were the badges of foreign orders most often worn by the Prince. The opal badge can be seen in his portrait by Winterhalter of 1842 and in photographs by Fenton.

http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/eGallery/object.asp?maker=...
Selected response from:

Blanka Nagy
Germany
Local time: 06:11
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2flint and spark
Blanka Nagy


  

Answers


48 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
flint and spark


Explanation:
This portrait of Philip the Good by Rogier van der Weyden shows the Duke wearing the distinctive collar of the Toison d'or. The other image is a detail of a frontispiece of one of Philip's books showing the Duke's arms and again the collar of the Toison d'or. The order's insignia of the Golden Fleece is suspended from a collar decorated with the devices of the ducal house. Since the capture of John of Nevers (the future John the Fearless) by the Turks in 1396, the flint and fire-steel, striking sparks had been the personal livery collar of the Duke's household. The statutes of the Toison d'or specify that every member of the order of the Golden Fleece was required to wear this collar daily. This makes explicit the sovereignty of the Duke over the order and the allegiance of the members of the order to the Duke's household.

http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/arth214_folder/bu...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 49 mins (2012-07-17 09:33:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The original badges of the Golden Fleece featured the Order’s symbol, a ram’s fleece - an allusion to the Burgundian wool trade as well as to the Golden Fleece of Greek mythology - hanging from a shower of sparks or flames emanating from a flint being struck by a fire steel (or briquette). By the nineteenth century the separate elements had become stylised and in Prince Albert’s badge the opals form the centre of the ‘briquette’ and the ‘flint’. The light, original setting of this badge has been adapted to take the opals in the slide, flint and sparks - particularly the middle stone in the flint. The incongruity of this later setting suggests that it may have been adapted from an earlier one. Just as the Prince’s Garter badge was an earlier piece reset for the Queen in 1840, it is possible that this was once the ‘Golden Fleece in brilliants’ sold to Rundell, Bridge & Co. in 1830. Opals were the Prince’s favourite stones (Journal, 4 July 1866). This and a second badge of the Order were the badges of foreign orders most often worn by the Prince. The opal badge can be seen in his portrait by Winterhalter of 1842 and in photographs by Fenton.

http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/eGallery/object.asp?maker=...

Blanka Nagy
Germany
Local time: 06:11
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in HungarianHungarian
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  JANOS SAMU
8 hrs

agree  Ildiko Santana
1 day 9 hrs
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