i ricchi e i riccastri

English translation: the rich and the richer/the rich and the über-rich

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Italian term or phrase:i ricchi e i riccastri
English translation:the rich and the richer/the rich and the über-rich
Entered by: Umberto Cassano

13:38 Aug 21, 2007
Italian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Journalism
Italian term or phrase: i ricchi e i riccastri
"gli ulivi secolari che ***i ricchi e i riccastri*** si fanno portare nei giardini delle loro ville "

Poetastro is "a bad poet". As a suffix "-astro" means contempt on the part of the critic.

With adjectives like "ricco" I still think there's a hint of dislike, especially in this context.

Any ideas ?
Umberto Cassano
Italy
Local time: 02:45
the rich and the richer
Explanation:
Hi Umberto,

The first thing I thought of was "the rich and the richer" then
I came across a fairly obscure website whixch translates riccastro as stinking rich (which I'm sure is too colloquial by far):

The suffixes -astro/a and -accio/a give the a pejorative connotation:
ricco - rich, riccastro - stinking rich

drawn from Harrap's Italian Grammer

http://tangsweb.o-f.com/languages/italian/grammar.html

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Note added at 13 mins (2007-08-21 13:52:36 GMT)
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another option but again probably too colloquial:

the filthy rich (current UK usage)

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Note added at 19 mins (2007-08-21 13:58:12 GMT)
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The Rich Vs. The Filthy Rich

interesting CBS news story

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/30/opinion/meyer/main...

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-08-21 14:52:19 GMT)
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// the rich and the unscrupulous might be another option (the unscrupulous also being rich due to the very trait of being unscrupulous) - but this would only fit if the pejorative connotations of "riccastri" do indeed derive from the method by which they attained their riches in the first place!! And now we're getting way too deep!!!!!!!!
Selected response from:

Ivana UK
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:45
Grading comment
Grazie Ivana per aver fornito molte soluzioni ed averle anticipate prima di tutti ! Anche la proposta di Claire è estremamente interessante ma non posso dividere i punti KudoZ ! Mi dispiace.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +6rich and filthy rich
Rosanna Palermo
4 +3the rich and the parvenu
Alessandra Renna
3 +1the rich and nuveaux riches
Irena Pizzi
4the rich and the super rich
potra
4the rich and the richer
Ivana UK
4the rich and the über-rich
Claire Titchmarsh (X)
4the wealthy and the rich
Linda 969
3the old and the new money
Mariateresa Varbaro


Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
the rich and nuveaux riches


Explanation:
è solo un'idea...

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Note added at 22 mins (2007-08-21 14:01:29 GMT)
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Nouveau riche
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For bands under the name "Nouveau Riche", see Nouveau Riche (band).

Nouveau riche (French for "new rich"), or new money refers to persons who acquire wealth within their generation. It is generally used to emphasize that the persons were previously part of a lower economic or social class, and that the acquisition of wealth has provided the ability to do or to have things that were previously out of their reach.

The term can also be used in a derogatory fashion, for the purposes of social class distinction, to describe persons with newfound wealth and who are viewed as lacking the experience, finesse, or taste to use wealth in the same manner as old money - persons from families who have been wealthy for multiple generations. The implication is that, despite their wealth, they are still of lower- or middle-class origin, and therefore culturally inferior. A stereotypical example would be persons with new wealth who spend money conspicuously, or who show preferences for things normally associated with people from lower economic classes.

Irena Pizzi
Italy
Local time: 02:45
Native speaker of: Native in BulgarianBulgarian, Native in RussianRussian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Juliet Halewood: I like this one too!
15 hrs
  -> Thank you, Jules!
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27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
the old and the new money


Explanation:
maybe

Mariateresa Varbaro
Italy
Local time: 02:45
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
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32 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the rich and the super rich


Explanation:
If the suffix 'astro' refers to extreme wealth (namely to stinking rich as Ivana points out) then this is my take. If it refers to newly enriched individuals then 'nouveau rich' would be of preference.

potra
United States
Local time: 21:45
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian, Native in EnglishEnglish
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the rich and the richer


Explanation:
Hi Umberto,

The first thing I thought of was "the rich and the richer" then
I came across a fairly obscure website whixch translates riccastro as stinking rich (which I'm sure is too colloquial by far):

The suffixes -astro/a and -accio/a give the a pejorative connotation:
ricco - rich, riccastro - stinking rich

drawn from Harrap's Italian Grammer

http://tangsweb.o-f.com/languages/italian/grammar.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2007-08-21 13:52:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

another option but again probably too colloquial:

the filthy rich (current UK usage)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2007-08-21 13:58:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The Rich Vs. The Filthy Rich

interesting CBS news story

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/30/opinion/meyer/main...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-08-21 14:52:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

// the rich and the unscrupulous might be another option (the unscrupulous also being rich due to the very trait of being unscrupulous) - but this would only fit if the pejorative connotations of "riccastri" do indeed derive from the method by which they attained their riches in the first place!! And now we're getting way too deep!!!!!!!!

Ivana UK
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:45
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Grazie Ivana per aver fornito molte soluzioni ed averle anticipate prima di tutti ! Anche la proposta di Claire è estremamente interessante ma non posso dividere i punti KudoZ ! Mi dispiace.
Notes to answerer
Asker: "stinking rich" was one of my options but I agree is far too colloquial...I think here riccastro is slightly more contemptuous than "richer"

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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
the rich and the parvenu


Explanation:
Un'alternativa

Alessandra Renna
Local time: 02:45
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Maurizio Valente
5 hrs
  -> grazie

agree  Graziano Scaldaferri (X)
17 hrs
  -> grazie

agree  halifax
18 hrs
  -> grazie
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the rich and the über-rich


Explanation:
über is commonly used nowadays and I think it has the slightly derogatory connation you are looking for.

the rich, and the flash, is another possibility.

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-08-21 15:06:35 GMT)
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Or

the haves and the have-mores.

Claire Titchmarsh (X)
Local time: 02:45
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the wealthy and the rich


Explanation:
Hi Umberto
I wouldn't stray too far from the ST - I think "the rich" has the negative overtones you need

I found this rather amusing:
http://www.jpmartin.com/investment/being-rich-vs-being-wealt...


Linda 969
Local time: 02:45
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 32
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
rich and filthy rich


Explanation:
From:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/filthy-rich.html
Meaning

Very rich, possibly having become so by unfair means.

Origin

This little phrase can't be explained without looking at the word lucre. From the 14th century lucre has meant money and is referred to as such by no less writers than Chaucer and John Wyclif. These references generally included a negative connotation and gave rise to the terms "foul lucre" and "filthy lucre", which have been in use since the 16th century. "Filthy lucre" appears first in print in 1526 in the works of William Tindale:

"Teachinge thinges which they ought not, because of filthy lucre."

Tindale was here using the term to mean dishonourable gain.



Rosanna Palermo
Local time: 21:45
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 15

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  simona dachille: BBC NEWS | Business | Filthy rich and femaleWhat is the secret of the UK's growing army of millionaire women?
15 mins
  -> Thanks Simona!

agree  potra: Good alternative
3 hrs
  -> Hello and thanks Potra

agree  Claire Restivo: This does it for me.
4 hrs
  -> Thank you Claire!

agree  Juliet Halewood: yes, or even stinking rich
13 hrs
  -> Hi and thank you Jules!

neutral  Linda 969: Hi - Just wanted to point out that Ivana had already suggested this when you posted it
21 hrs
  -> Hi Linda. I did not see that when I answered and apologize if anybody's feelings were hurt

agree  Peter Cox
1 day 12 hrs
  -> Thanks Peter!

agree  Pnina
2 days 1 hr
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