del 3.7 (see context below)

English translation: suggestion provided

17:54 Nov 13, 2005

Italian to English translations [PRO]
Medical - Medical: Dentistry / radiosurgery techniques

Italian term or phrase: del 3.7 (see context below)

This is part of the ongoing translation of a journal article on prosthodontic radiosurgery. The article refers to numbers like this one which I believe refer to "defect depths" in centimeters to identify to what level the tissue must be exposed before the procedure can be carried out. What I am not sure of is the proper way to express this in English. Here is the Italian:

CASO 3: GENGIVECTOMIA Paziente di sessa maschile di anni 28 con frattura della parete distolinguale ***del 3.7*** sottominata da carie.

In my sentence, I have placed it in different ways and cannot decide which is best:

CASE 3: GINGIVECTOMY 28 year old male patient with a ***3.7*** fracture of the distal-lingual wall damaged by decay.

OR should it be:

CASE 3: GINGIVECTOMY 28 year old male patient with a fracture of the distal-lingual wall, ***at the/of the 3.7***, damaged by decay.

This is from an OCR version of a scanned PDF made from a bad photocopy of the article that the client wants translated (and put in Trados) so there are many confusing glitches in the text. Any help would be much appreciated.

MTIA!

Elizabeth Lyons KudoZ activity Questions: 212 (none open) Answers: 687 United States
Local time: 17:20

English translation:suggestion provided

Explanation:
Hi Elizabeth, this is cool ;-)

I'm pretty sure it has to do with how dentists number teeth

compare

http://www.studiostaderini.it/id20.htm
(...) l'Organismo Mondiale della Sanità ha definito una "Numerazione Internazionale" che definisse gli elementi dentari in modo più sintetico, ma egualmente preciso.
Il sistema è semplice: La bocca viene divisa in quadranti; Il primo quadrante contiene i denti superiori destri dall'incisivo centrale al terzo molare, il secondo quadrante i denti superiori sinistri, il terzo quadrante gli inferiori sinistri ed il quarto quadrante gli inferiori destri. Di seguito va il numero ordinale del dente a partire dall'incisivo centrale che porta il numero 1 al terzo molare che porta il numero 8. Di conseguenza il 2.5 sarà il quinto dente dell'emiarcata superiore sinistra (2= secondo quadrante, 5=quinto dente) e cioè il secondo premolare superiore sinistro. Il 4.8 sarà il terzo molare (detto volgarmente "dente del giudizio") inferiore destro. Provate voi a stabilire quale dente è il 3.3

http://www.ada.org/public/topics/tooth_number.asp

http://www.drbunn.com/number.htm

I guess you can figure out what tooth *3.7* is on your own ;-)

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Note added at 55 mins (2005-11-13 18:49:30 GMT)
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http://www.annalsmed.org/pdf/34VolNo5200507/V34N5p341.pdf
The Interpol dental charting system employed the World
Dental Federation (FDI) tooth numbering system, which
divides the dentitions into 4 quadrants, numbered 1 to 4.
The upper right quadrant was 1, upper left 2, lower left 3
and lower right 4. Teeth were numbered from the midline
to the posterior, e.g., central incisors were #1, canines #3
and third molars #8. Teeth were denoted by a 2-digit code (the quadrant and the tooth).

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Note added at 1 hr 1 min (2005-11-13 18:55:12 GMT)
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not sure whether you need to specify that this is according to the FDI, dentists are probably aware ???

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Note added at 2 hrs 6 mins (2005-11-13 20:00:57 GMT)
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as for detective work ... well, it keeps us alert and on our toes doesn't it ;-)
plus it's a lot more fun than this paper I've been at all day long !

Selected response from:

Linda 969
Local time: 02:20

Grading comment

Linda, your explanation confirms one of the two possibilities. Thank you for all the support links and info.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +1

suggestion provided

Linda 969

at 3.7 mm .... ??

marionclarion

Discussion entries: 15

marionclarion

Well done and good luck with it. The position does seem the better option. Yes please, do let us know what they say.....

18:34 Nov 18, 2005

Elizabeth Lyons

United States

ASKER

14:39 Nov 18, 2005

I was waiting to hear back from the client on this but have not. I may have steered us all in the wrong direction by thinking it might be defect depth instead of tooth position (the two main choices I had identified). I used tooth position in the end. I will let you all know if the client comes back with a different interpretation! Thanks to everyone for your time.

Elizabeth Lyons

United States

ASKER

19:33 Nov 13, 2005

Marion, it's OK, I do that too - how else, really? Linda, I think this may explain why I had a hard time finding it on English sites -- so bogged down with the typos and scrambled text, I am just now getting back to clarifying these important details. I appreciate all these links and the feedback from you all! What are good detectives paid these days? ; )

Linda 969

the difference being that Italians write *3.7*, while the official notation is *37*

19:28 Nov 13, 2005

Linda 969

Elizabeth - The drbrunn website shows a chart of the two-digit FDI notation system (also found here http://www.acc.co.nz/wcm001/groups/external_providers/docume... and here
http://odontosoft.com/versions.htm#)

19:24 Nov 13, 2005

marionclarion

I think Linda's explanation is highly palusible, makes excellent sense, explains why no indication of scale of measurement/size is given and connects with the "of the" - this is a comment really rather than an ask - sorry for that!

19:22 Nov 13, 2005

Elizabeth Lyons

United States

ASKER

19:03 Nov 13, 2005

And, if it refers to tooth position/type numbers that means I can use "of the" as in the original Italian whereas I am inclined to say "at" (as Marion suggested) if it has to do with defect depths instead. Much to analyse here.

Elizabeth Lyons

United States

ASKER

19:00 Nov 13, 2005

Linda, thank you too - I had thought of that but for some reason did not find sites with numbers matching the ones cited in the article. I saw many about defect depth measurements instead. I will check out your links.

Elizabeth Lyons

United States

ASKER

18:38 Nov 13, 2005

Marion/Georges, the references are very old. Thanks for these ideas. Maybe this is why I couldn't even find the 1992 article in PubMed.

Elizabeth Lyons

United States

ASKER

18:35 Nov 13, 2005

Hi Georges, OK, thank you, I do not have the full reference as it is cut off from the xerox or scan as well. I only know that it is by M. Fabi, M.D.

marionclarion

There's a Google ref to your 1978 article - but it's in RUSSIAN!!! http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:VcKmYIHgPjgJ:www.efa.ru/...

18:29 Nov 13, 2005

Georges Tocco

Italy

I meant the reference for this particular article you are translating not for the references cited in text. Anyway If before 1995-96 they probably do not have a pdf version. offer is stil valid though. :-)

18:24 Nov 13, 2005

Elizabeth Lyons

United States

ASKER

18:16 Nov 13, 2005

Oops, sorry, typing too fast: Maness WL, Roeber FW ...

Elizabeth Lyons

United States

ASKER

18:15 Nov 13, 2005

Marion, yes - I was thinking just about the fact that they were measurements expressed in the metric system -- not paying attention to the actual size but you must be correct on mm not cm, tiny measurements of course. Thanks! Too many hours at the computer ; ))

Georges - you are so helpful. I read the abstract for one of them at Pub Med/Medline. The Bibliography is largely missing from the scan! I had to piece parts of it back together. The only intelligible references are Manness WL et al. One is from 1987, another for 1989 or 99 -- can't tell. The one I want and can't find is from 1992. Here is the full reference for the 1987:

Manness WL,oeber FW, Clark RF, Cataldo F, Riis O, Haddad AW: Histologic evaluation of electrosurgery with varying frequence and wave form. J. Prothet. Dent. 40:304, 1978.

You are so kind to offer this level of help : )

Marion, I liked "at" too, the "del" seems awkward in English. Thank you for your help too.

Georges Tocco

Italy

do you have the refences of the article? I might be able to get the pdf version if my library subscribes

18:00 Nov 13, 2005

Answers

13 mins confidence:

at 3.7 mm .... ??

Explanation:
Hallo Elizabeth -
I think your 2nd version is better :-
CASE 3: GINGIVECTOMY 28 year old male patient with a fracture of the distal-lingual wall, at 3.7 ??mm, damaged by decay.
and suspect the numbers must be a measurement - inches or cm would be too big, so probably mm, don't you think?

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Note added at 41 mins (2005-11-13 18:35:26 GMT)
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Maybe it's the level the probe goes to?

probing depth > or = 4 mm. ...

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Note added at 42 mins (2005-11-13 18:36:29 GMT)
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found in - recent journal articles: dentistry, oral surgery & medicine

marionclarion
Local time: 01:20
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 12

48 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

suggestion provided

Linda 969
Local time: 02:20
Native speaker of:

Italian,

English
PRO pts in category: 20

Grading comment

Linda, your explanation confirms one of the two possibilities. Thank you for all the support links and info.

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