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English translation: the epic of the ocean as an element
GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Italian term or phrase:
l’epica dell’oceano in quanto elemento
English translation:
the epic of the ocean as an element
14:03 Jun 2, 2015
The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2015-06-06 11:54:08 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
Italian to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Ships, Sailing, Maritime / comments on literary works about the sea
Italian term or phrase:l’epica dell’oceano in quanto elemento
A magazine article with list of literary works about the sea. Underneath each book author's name is a comment by the author of the article. This one is about Moby Dick by Melville.
Here is the context:
Herman Melville Leggere il romanzo di Melville è come perdersi tra le profonde oscurità degli abissi, tra titaniche digressioni e l’epica dell’oceano in quanto elemento: la memorabile storia di un’ossessione.
I don't quite understand the use of the word "tra". Between X and Y, this is a memorable tale of obsession; but do X and Y really go coherently together? Thanks for your help.
Thanks for that last suggestion (IT-IT explanations). I'll remember to use it in the future. The "tra" addendum turned into a colossal digression and indeed, was not part of the original question.
"l’epica dell’oceano in quanto elemento" non contiene "tra". Pertanto la discussione sul suo possibile significato è irrilevante e non fa parte della domanda.
was probably more a Italian to Italian question, but in any case you have to make a clear choice (as it is now it's definitely wrong), the question cannot be somehow in between... Next time you want an explanation of an Italian sentence, write in Italian, cause not all Italians can be supposed to speak English.
I needed to make an it-en translation, and to do so, I needed to understand the phrase I submitted. The "tra" question was admittedly, an addendum (I was referring to the second example) and generated a lot of discussion. For me, it is still a sticky point and I thank Giles for his insightful comments. I'm not sure how the reverse pair got started...and I might have contributed to the mess (correct) by clicking accidentally. Sorry about that :( All the comments have been helpful to me :)
Do you have to make an it-en translation or you just need to know the meaning of the Italian text? If the latter is the case, the combination of the question should be it-it. Anyway, I don't see why you have changed it into en-it, it's a real mess. :)
Volevo soltanto dire che "tra" è una preposizione di stato in luogo la cui prima occorrenza fa riferimento a un luogo fisico (abissi) mentre la seconda amplia il concetto spaziale a un piano metaforico proprio del romanzo (digressioni, epica).
nella sezione inglese-ita (ora ho invertito la coppia) per cui vedo la discussione e pensavo di dare il mio contributo. Non è che il secondo "tra" sia metaforico, anzi è me sempre quasi più concreto. Cioè per il lettore è facile perdersi tra le ampie digressioni che compie l'autore, cioè scostamenti dal tema (sul significato di titanico ci sarebbe un po' da riflettere) e il racconto epico dell'oceano come elemento della natura (between?) Forse per il primo tra invece "in"?
That's right, Giovanni, and you can translate it as "among". The space in which the "digressions" and "epic" are located - the novel-space of Moby Dick - is metaphorical, though.
This construction, which has the force of a coordinating conjunction introducing two items, is much less frequent in English. That's why I suggested a triplet for equivalent effect. A more literal version is not wrong, of course.
Very insightful comments and I realized that I hadn't even noticed the first "tra" (using "in" as suggested by Phil). It's that second one....I don't see "from (X) to (Y)" in this text. That triplet is a good idea. Thanks
Thank you both for your suggestions. Here is a further question: do you think the word "elemento" is meant as "water" (as in one of the four elements) or in the sense of component of a literary work?
Perhaps you're a bit confused about "tra" because it's used both literally and metaphorically in the same sentence: > "... tra le profonde oscurità degli abissi, tra titaniche digressioni e l’epica dell’oceano in quanto elemento: la memorabile storia di un'ossessione". > The first "tra" ("tra le profonde oscurità degli abissi") is the standard preposition of place and means "among" or (as Phil says) "in".
The second "tra", however, ("tra titaniche digressioni e l’epica dell’oceano in quanto elemento:"), is metaphorical and is used like English-language preposition pair "from... to...".
While English "from.. to" generally indicates a time span, Italian metaphorical "tra... e" is more flexible and can be used to link almost anything to anything, which is presumably why it's so popular in the titles and taglines of conferences, books, articles and the like.
"From... to" works well enough here but I would be tempted to ignore the second "tra" and translate "abissi", "digressioni" and "epica" as a straightforward triplet, along the lines of "abyssal darkness, gargantuan (I'd avoid "titanic"!) digressions and the epic of the ocean qua element".
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Answers
13 mins confidence:
the epic, elemental ocean
Explanation: And "tra" is best translated as "in" here, rather than "between".
Tom in London United Kingdom Local time: 11:51 Works in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 94
Grading comment
Thanks, Tom
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, Tom.
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