忍び

English translation: warrior of stealth arts

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

Japanese term or phrase:	忍び
English translation:	warrior of stealth arts
Entered by:	humbird

19:49 Dec 8, 2006

Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History

Japanese term or phrase: 忍び

It is generally refered as Ninja. However, if I am to put Ninja for 忍者, how can I say 忍び?

michiko tsum (X) KudoZ activity Questions: 117 (none open) (15 closed without grading) Answers: 263 Canada
Local time: 14:34

warrior of stealth arts

Explanation:
おっさｈるとおり、忍者というのは使いすぎで、本当に安っぽい響きになってしまいましたよね。
この応えはRie さんのサイトから得たヒントです。影で動くので shadow warrior などといいたいのですが、これは重要人物のダブルを意味しますよね(黒澤明の映画の｢影武者」のように）。
また正式の武士ではないのですが、戦う人間であることは確かなのでこんな風にひねってみました。
もっとぴったりの案がでるといいですね。

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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-12-08 22:11:43 GMT)
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きゃっ、転換ミス。
おっさｈるとおり　－＞　おっしゃるとおり

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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-12-08 22:12:26 GMT)
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ぴったり一語というと難しいですね。

Selected response from:

humbird

Grading comment

Thank you, Susan. I will use the word "stealth". Yes, "shadow warrior" is another good one, but I am actually using that for another term. Thanks.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

(some) one skilled in the art of stealth.

Will Matter

3 +1

warrior of stealth arts

humbird

stealth warrior

Roddy Stegemann

(secret/hidden) infiltrator

Rossa Ó Muireartaigh

incognito

Maynard Hogg

Discussion entries: 8

Rossa Ó Muireartaigh

Japan

01:26 Dec 9, 2006

...acting surreptitiously-'hidden infiltrator'. Anyway, perhaps this is not the forum for continuing this. You can have the last word. I'll finished here. Thanks Hamo, sorry Rie.

Rossa Ó Muireartaigh

Japan

01:22 Dec 9, 2006

Hamo: But the fact that 'hidden infiltrator' sounds right to me (and to so many other to be found through googling the phrase) suggest that I can justify it as a stylistic convention (a collocation). Also, there may be the sense of a someone visible...

Rossa Ó Muireartaigh

Japan

01:19 Dec 9, 2006

Hi Hamo: the probe's purpose should be secretive to support the contention that infiltrate implies always surreptition. But like globalization, TB, dampness, it can infiltrate and we can all watch it. Your argument about 'infiltrator' [noun] is stronger.

Roddy Stegemann

United States

00:48 Dec 9, 2006

Rossa: The use of the word infiltrate in the context of the probe is figurative. It evokes a sense of mystery -- the unveiling of the unknown. The probe is purposeful and conscious, and the target is hidden and secret.

Roddy Stegemann

United States

00:44 Dec 9, 2006

Rossa: As I have run out of peer-response note space I am continuing our dialogue here.

michiko tsum (X)

Canada

ASKER

Thank you!

20:25 Dec 8, 2006

Rieさん、Susanさん、ありがとうございます。Rieさんのリンクはとても役に立ちました(that should have been the first thing I checked!)。ここで言う｢忍び｣は人です。忍者と言ってしまっては軽すぎというか、ここでは忍術を使う人という意味より、影で行動する人と言いたかったので、何か名詞で良い言葉がないかなとお尋ねした次第です。

humbird

20:07 Dec 8, 2006

忍びといったとき、”忍びの者”　と　”忍びの術” または ”忍びの技” のどちらかを意味しますがどちらでしょうか？別の言葉でいいますと、人間かわざのことかどちらかとなり、それによって答えが多少変わってくると思いますが。でもりえさんのウィキペディアにはよい情報がたくさんありますね。

RieM

United States

19:58 Dec 8, 2006

Michiko-san, I see "Ninjitsu Shinobi" or "Ninjitsu". Wikipedia has a page but not verifed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja

Hope you find a ninja expert!

Answers

2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

warrior of stealth arts

humbird
Native speaker of:

Japanese,

English
PRO pts in category: 22

Grading comment

Thank you, Susan. I will use the word "stealth". Yes, "shadow warrior" is another good one, but I am actually using that for another term. Thanks.

3 hrs confidence:

stealth warrior

Explanation:
議論をよく聞いて、上記のリンクを見つけました。

Reference: http://www.trueswords.com/ninja-gear-c-10.html

Roddy Stegemann
United States
Local time: 14:34
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English

Notes to answerer

Asker: This sounds good, too. But as yours is very similar to Susan's and because she was first, I am awarding her the points. Thank you for your help.

3 hrs confidence:

(secret/hidden) infiltrator

Explanation:
Ninja, of course, has now entered English usage- thanks to the 80s 'Teenage Ninja Hero Turtles'. Consequently, 'Ninja spy', 'Ninja agent' can be used.
If you are trying to get across the general meaning though of someone who acts stealthily, 'infiltrator' may work, perhaps with the modifiers 'secret infiltrator', 'hidden infiltrator' etc.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-12-09 00:26:51 GMT)
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[Continuation of response to Hamo]: 'infiltration' being purposeful does not necessarily imply that it is secretive. The purpose is penetration even when not surreptitious. cf. 'The probe infiltrated the gaseous clouds that envelope the Planet Jupiter'

Rossa Ó Muireartaigh
Japan
Local time: 06:34
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English

Notes to answerer

Asker: "Someone who works stealthly" is what I was thinking and I think I will use the word "stealth". Thank you very much for your help.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

neutral

Roddy Stegemann: Don't you think terms like "secret infiltrator" and "hidden infiltrator" are a little redundant? After all infiltration means surreptitious penetration. // An interesting defense, but infiltration is purposeful -- no matter how it is received.

8 mins

-> Nyet:'Infiltrate' primarily means to penetrate the boundary of a coherent, unified entity. This can be observed openly. cf: 'Globalization has infiltrated every corner of the globe'- process largely unconscious not surreptitious//see answer note above

neutral

humbird: I like this. However like Hamo pointed out no "infiltration" is open and visible, word in parenthesis is redundant. Other than that your argument, while legitimate, is rather immaterial to the question.

1 hr

-> Even if so (and I do not yet concede it to be always so), I would also argue that natural language is full of apparant 'redundancies', or rather stylistic collocations. It is an unavoidable inevitability which can't be changed.

11 hrs confidence:

(some) one skilled in the art of stealth.

Explanation:
"Shinobi" is generally considered to be a synonym for 'ninja', it's another term that was (and still is) used to to describe someone who practices the art of 'ninjutsu'. 'Shinobi', 'shinobi-bito' and 'ninja' all mean the same thing. HTH.

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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2006-12-10 03:49:54 GMT)
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Here's a reference (one among many) http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/ninja.html There are lots of alternate terms for 'ninja', some are archaic, some are still in use. In addition to those given above you may see 'shinobi no mono' and even 'Iga no mono' and 'Koga no mono'. All of these terms simply mean 'ninja'. Also, the kanji for 'ninja-too' (忍者刀) can be read as 'shinobigatana'. HTH.

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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2006-12-10 03:58:16 GMT)
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http://www.yume-dojo.org/index.php?ninpo=1

Will Matter
United States
Local time: 14:34
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you for taking time to answer my question and thank you for the link. Yes, they all mean the same thing. I think I will use the work "stealth" but as Susan is the first one to came up with that word, I am rewarding her the points.

2 days 10 hrs confidence:

incognito

Explanation:
was how the term was used in the film マルサの女.
However, since you provide zero CONTEXT, how are we supposed to answer?

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Note added at 3 days10 hrs (2006-12-12 06:00:34 GMT) Post-grading
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> I thought people would know what Shinobi is without context.

As a lapsed linguist, I must reiterate: Words have no meaning without a CONTEXT. In other words, a word's "meaning" depends on its CONTEXT. As I recall, the AmaZ.com form for posting a query specifically mentions CONTEXT.

Maynard Hogg
Canada
Local time: 14:34
Native speaker of: English

Notes to answerer

Asker: Should be "awarding", right?

Asker: Thank you for taking time to answer, Maynard. Sorry for making it difficult for you to answer by not giving any context. I thought people would know what Shinobi is without context. I was simply asking for another word for Ninja.

Asker: Oops. I'm sorry. The first note is addressed to Willmatter-san.

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忍び

English translation: warrior of stealth arts

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