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型より出でて自在を得る

English translation: master the moves and then master the sport

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Japanese term or phrase:型より出でて自在を得る
English translation:master the moves and then master the sport
Entered by: KNielsen

16:11 May 5, 2005
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Sports / Fitness / Recreation / Martial Arts
Japanese term or phrase: 型より出でて自在を得る
The full phrase is, 型を学び型より出でて自在を得るべし。 "型" is the set of movements incorporating karate 技. I guess what I'm having problems with is 出でて, specifically--is what comes after the *result* of practicing kata? Or something else? I can't seem to get hold of the structure. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
KNielsen
Japan
Local time: 04:04
master the moves and then master the sport
Explanation:
自在 means full control, mastery.
BTW, the few English-speaking karateka that I know use "kata" untranslated. I don't recall hearing it in Spanish in Varadero--just words like "shizentai" and "yasume".
Selected response from:

Maynard Hogg
Canada
Local time: 12:04
Grading comment
Humbird, I think you made a really good point about kata. Although everyone practices the same kata, everyone changes it a little. I think the basic meaning contained in this phrase was that you can use the waza contained in kata during kumite matches and so on, so I think Maynard's answer is closest to the meaning I was looking for (although they tell me that karate is distinct from a sport). I agree with Maynard too about leaving some terms untranslated--it's widely done, and also "forms" just kind of sounds funny. Anyway, I translated it as "Master karate through kata"--a slightly liberal take on it--but anyway, thanks a lot, everyone.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1you will obtain universal
Kaori Myatt
4From the form to the mastery sponteneity
humbird
1 +1master the moves and then master the sport
Maynard Hogg


  

Answers


3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
you will obtain universal


Explanation:
Learning forms is a basic of martial arts. First you learn forms then you can create your own forms.

型より出でて Based on the forms you have learnt

自在を得る you will obtain universal

Karate is such a philosophical sports.


Kaori Myatt
France
Local time: 21:04
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Kazuo SAWADA
2 hrs
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): +1
型より出でて自在を得る
master the moves and then master the sport


Explanation:
自在 means full control, mastery.
BTW, the few English-speaking karateka that I know use "kata" untranslated. I don't recall hearing it in Spanish in Varadero--just words like "shizentai" and "yasume".


    Reference: http://www2.alc.co.jp/ejr/index.php?word_in=%8E%A9%8D%DD&wor...
    Reference: http://yoga4.org/gif/hito/hito-zkara-050404-169.jpg
Maynard Hogg
Canada
Local time: 12:04
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Humbird, I think you made a really good point about kata. Although everyone practices the same kata, everyone changes it a little. I think the basic meaning contained in this phrase was that you can use the waza contained in kata during kumite matches and so on, so I think Maynard's answer is closest to the meaning I was looking for (although they tell me that karate is distinct from a sport). I agree with Maynard too about leaving some terms untranslated--it's widely done, and also "forms" just kind of sounds funny. Anyway, I translated it as "Master karate through kata"--a slightly liberal take on it--but anyway, thanks a lot, everyone.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  tappi_k: I think yours is a good attempt, and also agree that often words like 'kata' remain untranslated.
10 hrs
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1 day 12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
型より出でて自在を得る
From the form to the mastery sponteneity


Explanation:
Only after mastering basics (katas), you are able to free yourself from kata's constraints. Yet you are not free of the constraints as rule must be observed. When you overcome the initila constraint and they are no more your source of burden. Ony then you get the mastery of it. They become spontaneous moves for you. This is the state of 自在を得る.

humbird
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese, Native in EnglishEnglish
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