искусство vs художество

English translation: ... consider it a noble art, a true art/an art in and of itself)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:искусство vs художество
English translation:... consider it a noble art, a true art/an art in and of itself)
Entered by: Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.

22:14 Jan 17, 2017
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
Russian term or phrase: искусство vs художество
Phrase in question: Они чрезвычайно любят свое ремесло и считают его благородным искусством, художеством.
Context: 19th century Russian journalism.
Both искусство and художество mean art to me, but the author clearly thinks they're different. Is художество simply more emphatic than искусство, or is it a different domain?
Oreneta
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:44
... consider it a noble art, an art in itself.
Explanation:
For the purpose of the sentence, the two words amplify each other.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2017-01-18 03:36:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

More precisely, ...consider it a noble art, an art in and of itself

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2017-01-18 12:01:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

One may even shorten it as ...consider it a noble art, a true art (all artists consider themselves true artists)
Selected response from:

Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
United States
Local time: 10:44
Grading comment
Thanks very much!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3... consider it a noble art, an art in itself.
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
4 +2см. ниже
Tatiana Grehan
4 -1mastery vs art
Turdimurod Rakhmanov
3 -1art and
Ellen Kraus
Summary of reference entries provided
художество
Igor Andreev

Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
см. ниже


Explanation:
Это одно и то же, но "художество" - устаревшее слово (именно в значении "искусство"). См. https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/художество

Tatiana Grehan
United States
Local time: 10:44
Native speaker of: Russian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  eduard_
1 hr
  -> Спасибо!

agree  The Misha: Absolutely. This is nothing but the never-ending Russian love of synonyms and repetitions.
9 hrs
  -> Thank you!
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21 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
art and


Explanation:
художество сomprises the various fields of art such as e.g. painting, architecture etc., this painter is one of the most famous artists of our century (он знаменитый художник) etc.
whereas искусство means in a wider sense dexterity, skilfulness (Он искуссный narrator )

Ellen Kraus
Austria
Local time: 16:44
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  The Misha: There is really no such difference. This is simply an obsolete word.
9 hrs
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34 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
mastery vs art


Explanation:
Здесь в контексте есть разница,
mastery vs (fine) art
1. искусство в значении умение, мастерство, тонкое знание дела.
2. художество уже более значение шире здесь


Turdimurod Rakhmanov
Kyrgyzstan
Local time: 20:44
Native speaker of: Native in UzbekUzbek, Native in KirghizKirghiz
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  The Misha: You are splitting hairs for no good reason. There is no such "уже более значение шире здесь". .
9 hrs
  -> Thanks so much for your humble opinion, better to convey the meaning than translating just synonyms
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
... consider it a noble art, an art in itself.


Explanation:
For the purpose of the sentence, the two words amplify each other.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2017-01-18 03:36:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

More precisely, ...consider it a noble art, an art in and of itself

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2017-01-18 12:01:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

One may even shorten it as ...consider it a noble art, a true art (all artists consider themselves true artists)

Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
United States
Local time: 10:44
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PolishPolish
PRO pts in category: 20
Grading comment
Thanks very much!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  The Misha: This works too.
4 hrs
  -> Thank you, The Misha.

agree  Oleg Lozinskiy
4 hrs
  -> Thank you, Oleg.

agree  danya: with the last one. or "..a noble art, a fine art"
11 hrs
  -> Thank you, danya. I am glad that you agree that a literary technique is involved here.
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Reference comments


1 hr peer agreement (net): +2
Reference: художество

Reference information:
Следует также различать определения: искусный, искусство и более узкое "художество". Их отождествление приводит к путанице и смешению разных категорий, что особенно нежелательно в области декоративно-прикладного искусства и художественных ремесел. Под словом "искусство" мы понимаем искусную, умелую деятельность вообще (например, искусство вождения автомобиля, кулинарное, парикмахерское искусство); "художество" — деятельность по созданию исключительно художественных образов.


    Reference: http://shedevrs.ru/iskustvovedenie/642-hudogestvo.html
Igor Andreev
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Oleg Lozinskiy
8 hrs
  -> Спасибо, хотя The Misha в чем-то определенно прав в отношении любви к словоизлияниям в определенных кругах, мне однако приходилось сталкиваться и с англоязычными текстами подобного вида )
agree  Turdimurod Rakhmanov: Да именно, есть разница, второй-по созданию исключительно художественных образов, первый mastery, skill в этом контексте
10 hrs
  -> Спасибо!
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