конский щавель

English translation: horse sorrel, horse dock

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:конский щавель
English translation:horse sorrel, horse dock
Entered by: Tim Sergay

01:01 Jun 4, 2010
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Science - Botany
Russian term or phrase: конский щавель
From 2000 novel by A.P. Chudakov Lozhitsia mgla na starye stupeni; the setting is Northern Kazakhstan, tectonic lake; context: Ещё ближе была Каменуха, по излогим склонам к ней вели перелески из кривульника, на полянах зверобой, душица, болиголов, щитовник, сныть, конский щавель, целые поляны медвянки, от её аромата кружилась голова; над ней гудели, как аэропланы, пухлые шмели-медовики. For щавель alone, which also appears in this local context, I have found sorrel (dock) and am satisfied with these, but I have not found конский щавель anywhere. Thank you for any help at all!
Tim Sergay
Local time: 14:55
horse sorrel
Explanation:
Paul Macura's Russian-English Botanical Dictionary gives "horse sorrel" or "monk's rhubarb" for this.


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Note added at 38 mins (2010-06-04 01:39:29 GMT)
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Other sources, however, say that "monk's rhubarb" is used for Rumex patienta, and that the latter is also know as "patience dock", "garden patience", "herb patience." Those don't sound like part of a wild landscape, and "horse sorrel" is certainly used for wild Rumex confertus. "Asiatic dock" and "Russian dock" are also used (it's an invasive, in North America), but for an "internal" landscape description, i.e., if your narration is by somebody who lives in those parts, and also for fitting into a long list, I think "horse sorrel" would sound the most natural.
Selected response from:

Rachel Douglas
United States
Local time: 14:55
Grading comment
Thanks and points to Rachel, but you both have been extremely generous to me: I am grateful to you both.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2horse sorrel
Rachel Douglas
4Asiatic Dock
Marina Aleyeva


  

Answers


15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
horse sorrel


Explanation:
Paul Macura's Russian-English Botanical Dictionary gives "horse sorrel" or "monk's rhubarb" for this.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 38 mins (2010-06-04 01:39:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Other sources, however, say that "monk's rhubarb" is used for Rumex patienta, and that the latter is also know as "patience dock", "garden patience", "herb patience." Those don't sound like part of a wild landscape, and "horse sorrel" is certainly used for wild Rumex confertus. "Asiatic dock" and "Russian dock" are also used (it's an invasive, in North America), but for an "internal" landscape description, i.e., if your narration is by somebody who lives in those parts, and also for fitting into a long list, I think "horse sorrel" would sound the most natural.

Rachel Douglas
United States
Local time: 14:55
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thanks and points to Rachel, but you both have been extremely generous to me: I am grateful to you both.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you, Rachel! I will wait the recommended 24 hours, but I was hoping that "horse sorrel" would turn out to be attested, and I'm confident I'll end up picking this answer and awarding you the associated "kudos." I was unaware of the Macura title (not a specialist): Does this dictionary shed any light on медвянка or кривульник?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Halyna Smakal
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Halyna.

agree  RaissaGMF
4 hrs
  -> Thanks, Raissa.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Asiatic Dock


Explanation:
Щаве́ль ко́нский (лат. Rúmex confértus) — многолетнее травянистое растение из семейства Гречишные (Polygonaceae).
ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumex_confertus

Name Rumex confertus Willd.
Common names Asiatic Dock
http://data.gbif.org/species/13762157


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Note added at 11 hrs (2010-06-04 12:32:00 GMT)
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Tim, it seems that you have already made up your mind, but I would still like to point out that bilingual dictionaries are of lower importance compared to flora checklists when it comes to the common names of plants. "horse sorrel" does not seem to be an accepted name and looks more like a literal translation. GBIF is an international organisation that puts together various data publishers (see http://data.gbif.org/datasets/ ), so I would rather trust the GBIF checklist than a dictionary.

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Note added at 11 hrs (2010-06-04 12:38:03 GMT)
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Please also note that конский щавель is a widely known common name rather than preferential or local, which means that you would need an accepted name to translate it. However, on second thought, I think that just sorrel or dock may be sufficient in this case even though you already have just щавель earlier in this text.

Marina Aleyeva
Israel
Local time: 20:55
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in category: 12
Notes to answerer
Asker: Dear Marina, Thank you very much for pointing out the GBIF site, which is totally new to me. I have done some more googling around for "horse sorrel" and find plenty of confirmation of its use as a common name for Rumex confertus, but also Rumex acetosella and Rumex hydrolapathum (the latter in www.archive.org/stream/.../dictionaryofengl00mill_djvu.txt). I do indeed have to distinguish щавель from конский щавель. I found also "horse dock." If there are technical criteria for inclusion of a vernacular term in the category "accepted name," could you possibly refer me to a source for those criteria? Address: [email protected]. Thank you again!

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