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весь народ из одних ворот

English translation: the evil field will evil yield

22:19 Nov 25, 2009
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Idioms / Maxims / Sayings / Saying
Russian term or phrase: весь народ из одних ворот
A writer is talking about the level of cultural decline, such as not reading books any more, being approximately the same in cities and in the countryside.

I would like to find a comparable English expression. So far, all I thought of is "cut of the same cloth" and "hewed from the same stone," but it would be nice to find one which has people in it. Alternatively, a rhymed translation of the Russian expression. Not asking for much, huh?
Rachel Douglas
United States
Local time: 05:21
English translation:the evil field will evil yield
Explanation:
There is also Russian expression (more popular, I should say) "Одного поля ягоды".
Consider "of the same batch" as well.
Selected response from:

Maria Korolenkova
Russian Federation
Local time: 12:21
Grading comment
I didn't use "the evil field...", but would like to give you the points, for being the first one to explain the expression to me. So, thanks to Maria and Katya, for making clear what "gate" is intended. I had assumed it meant an ordinary city gate, maybe under the influence of Pushkin, who in his "Rejoinder to Criticism" cites a line from an old skazka: "И вышел он за врата градские, и услышал конский топ и людскую молвь". So it got into my head that talking about actual gates was common.

In any event, I ended up writing: "Ves narod iz odnikh vorot” – "All the people came through the same gate." I decided it would not work to use an English saying (especially ones with highly specific cultural connotations). Here's the whole passage from the interview, for anybody who's interested:

"I think that the city and the country are evenly matched. When they were filming a documentary here ..., the director did an experiment. ... He put some questions to children here: “Who was Lenin?” They answered: “A writer.” “And who was Gogol?” That question they couldn’t answer. He didn’t pre-screen the interviewees. He asked everybody. A small town in a rural district. Kids in a small district town. It has two schools, where the senior students would seem to be fairly intelligent youngsters. At first glance. I’ve given talks at these schools a few times, but maybe their apparent intelligence comes down to the fact that mostly they don’t say anything? In any case, they never have any questions. They don’t have any questions, and they don’t have any answers, either. I think that the countryside is very little different from the city now. Neither worse, nor better. I don’t even know how to explain this. It’s like the Russian saying: "Ves narod iz odnikh vorot” – "All the people came through the same gate." What ails the city, ails the village as well. In that sense, our nation has been united, in some way, around the tragedy we are now experiencing. Namely, the decline of culture in every aspect."
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1см. ниже
Ekaterina Ryabtseva
4six of one, half a dozen of the other
Eric Candle
3A man's a man for a' that
Libero_Lang_Lab
3the evil field will evil yield
Maria Korolenkova
3(a world/nation) of cookie cutter look-alikes
Judith Hehir
3"Little boxes all the same!"
Alina EN-RU


Discussion entries: 14





  

Answers


49 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
A man's a man for a' that


Explanation:
This might be a little too culturally marked for you, but worth mentioning, for literary interest value if nothing else.

This is the title of a very famous poem by Robert Burns (see below). And it has become embedded in the modern lexicon in Scotland (I don't think I could even claim it was widely known among British English speakers), to mean: however you dress us up, however rich or poor we may be, we're all basically the same.


s there for honesty poverty
That hings his head, an' a' that;
The coward slave - we pass him by,
We dare be poor for a' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Our toils obscure an' a' that,
The rank is but the guinea's stamp,
The man's the gowd for a' that.

What though on hamely fare we dine,
Wear hoddin grey, an' a' that?
Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine,
A man's a man for a' that.
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their tinsel show, an' a' that,
The honest man, tho' e'er sae poor,
Is king o' men for a' that.

Ye see yon birkie ca'd a lord,
Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that;
Tho' hundreds worship at his word,
He's but a coof for a' that.
For a' that, an' a' that,
His ribband, star, an' a' that,
The man o' independent mind
He looks an' laughs at a' that.

A price can mak a belted knight,
A marquise, duke, an' a' that;
But an honest man's aboon his might,
Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their dignities an' a' that,
The pith o' sense, an' pride o' worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.

Then let us pray that come it may,
(As come it will for a' that,)
That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear the gree, an' a' that.
For a' that, an' a' that,
That man to man, the world o'er,
Shall brithers be for a' that.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 51 mins (2009-11-25 23:10:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thinking about it for a few seconds more, this wouldn't work for you! But it's a nice line anyway! :-)

Libero_Lang_Lab
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:21
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8
Notes to answerer
Asker: Oh, Dan, that's a favorite of mine!! (Note the name of my household: Douglas.) By the way, did you know that "Wir sind das Volk," which the crowds in Leipzig chanted 20 years ago this fall, comes from Burns? It's lifted from an 1848 revolutionary song by Freiligrath, known as "Trotz alledem" ("Despite everything," in other words - "For a' that"), which was based on his earlier translation of "A man's a man." I think one of the most amazing film clips I ever saw was of the Windsors ("the Hanoverians", as an elderly Scots friend of mine used to say) holding their stiff upper lip while this was sung, by the Parliamentarians, at the first opening of the Scottish Parliament in a few centuries. ... But, you're right, it won't do for this context.

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57 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
the evil field will evil yield


Explanation:
There is also Russian expression (more popular, I should say) "Одного поля ягоды".
Consider "of the same batch" as well.

Maria Korolenkova
Russian Federation
Local time: 12:21
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
I didn't use "the evil field...", but would like to give you the points, for being the first one to explain the expression to me. So, thanks to Maria and Katya, for making clear what "gate" is intended. I had assumed it meant an ordinary city gate, maybe under the influence of Pushkin, who in his "Rejoinder to Criticism" cites a line from an old skazka: "И вышел он за врата градские, и услышал конский топ и людскую молвь". So it got into my head that talking about actual gates was common.

In any event, I ended up writing: "Ves narod iz odnikh vorot” – "All the people came through the same gate." I decided it would not work to use an English saying (especially ones with highly specific cultural connotations). Here's the whole passage from the interview, for anybody who's interested:

"I think that the city and the country are evenly matched. When they were filming a documentary here ..., the director did an experiment. ... He put some questions to children here: “Who was Lenin?” They answered: “A writer.” “And who was Gogol?” That question they couldn’t answer. He didn’t pre-screen the interviewees. He asked everybody. A small town in a rural district. Kids in a small district town. It has two schools, where the senior students would seem to be fairly intelligent youngsters. At first glance. I’ve given talks at these schools a few times, but maybe their apparent intelligence comes down to the fact that mostly they don’t say anything? In any case, they never have any questions. They don’t have any questions, and they don’t have any answers, either. I think that the countryside is very little different from the city now. Neither worse, nor better. I don’t even know how to explain this. It’s like the Russian saying: "Ves narod iz odnikh vorot” – "All the people came through the same gate." What ails the city, ails the village as well. In that sense, our nation has been united, in some way, around the tragedy we are now experiencing. Namely, the decline of culture in every aspect."
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank, Maria. But, "из одних ворот" doesn't have any sense of "evil," does it?

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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
(a world/nation) of cookie cutter look-alikes


Explanation:
maybe?

This doesn't have a positive connotation. It implies no individuality/individualism, but I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for.

Judith Hehir
United States
Local time: 05:21
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 31
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17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
six of one, half a dozen of the other


Explanation:
одним миром ("миро") мазаны

Eric Candle
Local time: 05:21
Works in field
Native speaker of: Russian
PRO pts in category: 8
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
см. ниже


Explanation:
1) all the crowd from the same out
2) whole crowd from one out
3) all the crowd came from the same out

Выберите вариант по вкусу, ну или, благодаря врожденному языковому чутью, трансформируйте в идеальный, на ваш взгляд. :-)
Здесь про то место, откуда все дети родятся. Так что все оттуда и вышли.
Если не подойдут варианты, то, надеюсь, хотя бы подтолкну в нужном направлении. Успехов!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 дн14 час (2009-11-27 13:13:01 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Думаю, тут дело в восприятии. Заглянув со стороны бейсбола, мне в оригинальном русском стал мерещиться футбол. Впрочем, вы родной всяко лучше чувствуете, который для меня является иностранным. :-)

Ekaterina Ryabtseva
Russian Federation
Local time: 12:21
Native speaker of: Russian
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, Katya! My problem with the proposals would be that any short phrase containing "crowd" and "out" would make me think I'm at a baseball game!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  danya: hear, hear! i like the crowd-out thing
36 mins
  -> Спасибо, danya!
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
"Little boxes all the same!"


Explanation:
I guess it could be a good idea to just use the words from the song:

"Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky-tacky,
Little boxes, little boxes,
Little boxes, all the same.
There’s a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they’re all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same."

To my mind it's not all about houses...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day15 hrs (2009-11-27 13:20:04 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

I think the song is in essence about the traps of conformity.
Anyway, I like your questions, grading comments and explanations. Thanks, Rachel!

Alina EN-RU
United States
Local time: 05:21
Native speaker of: Russian
Notes to answerer
Asker: The problem is that it's exactly about houses! The "Little Boxes" song (1962) is about post-war suburbia in the United States. Any reader of my (baby-boomer) generation would immediately have the tune start running through their head, which would be totally incongruous in a discussion about the level of culture in Russian rural areas in 2008.

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