механизм реализуется

English translation: см. пояснение

18:38 Nov 27, 2010

Russian to English translations [PRO]
Science - Science (general) / scientific writing

Russian term or phrase: механизм реализуется

В жесткой оболочке с упругим днищем, которая частично заполнена жидкостью, реализуется, в основном, два механизма образования газовых пузырьков.

Nik-On/Off KudoZ activity Questions: 2449 (9 open) (7 without valid answers) (11 closed without grading) Answers: 3896 Ukraine
Local time: 07:35

English translation:см. пояснение

Explanation:
Фрагмент оригинала:
"... реализуется, в основном, два механизма образования газовых пузырьков"
Его перевод:
"... gas bubble formation mainly occurs via two mechanisms"

Примеры взяты из ссылок (см.)

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Note added at 1 час (2010-11-27 19:55:14 GMT)
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Конструкция "механизм реализуется" - типичный "русизм":
главным членом предложения (подлежащим) является слово, не несущее конкретного содержания (механизмы не названы)

В английских конструкциях обычно подлежащее - слово(сочетание), являющееся реальным "смысловым центром" всего предложения (образование газовых пузырьков), а менее содержательное сочетание (два механизма) - на второстепенном месте

Первый пример легко перевести на русский как
"Механизмом образования капелек или пузырьков часто служит / является гидродинамическая неустойчивость"

Более того, в прямом переводе
"Часто образование капелек или пузырьков происходит через гидродинамическую неустойчивость"
словосочетание "через ... неустойчивость" звучит "не очень по-русски"

Аналогично можно рассмотреть второй пример

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Note added at 18 час (2010-11-28 13:33:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Легко нашел пример из книги по физике - практически "в десятку":

"The transport of electrons through macromolecular structures containing redox active sites occurs via two mechanisms: physical displacement of the redox molecules and electron hopping from one reduced molecules to an adjacent oxidized species (termed donor--acceptor electron self-exchange)"
"Polymeric Systems"
ed. by Ilya Prigogine and Stuart A. Rice
Advances in Chemical Physics
vol. 44 (1997)
page 306

Он хорош тем, что иллюстрирует смысл слова

механизм = mechanism = [a] known process[es] or interaction[s] invoked to explain a phenomenon being studied
в контексте физики
(см. коммент к моему "disagree" по поводу ответа Rachel Douglas)

Здесь первый механизм (physical displacement) - процесс
Второй (donor--acceptor electron self-exchange) - можно рассматривать с т. зр. физики и как процесс, и как взаимодействие

Поиск в Гугл
physics "occurs via two mechanisms"
дает массу подобных примеров из разных областей физики

Можно также заметить, что русский перевод
"В переносе электронов в макромолекулярных структурах/системах ... реализуются два механизма..."
звучит нормально
Хотя с моей точки зрения выражение "реализуются механизмы" само по себе отдает канцелярским косноязычием

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Note added at 19 час (2010-11-28 13:38:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Для полной ясности:
В приведенном примере из книги
"transport of electrons through macromolecular structures"
и есть то явление, для объяснения которого (в качестве механизмов) привлекаются
"physical displacement of the redox molecules" и "electron hopping"

Selected response from:

Andrei B
Local time: 07:35

Grading comment

Всем огромное спасибо!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

см. пояснение

Andrei B

the mechanism works

Victoria Lubashenko

3 +1

are formed in two ways (this context)

Rachel Douglas

let's cut this rhetorical device with a transform

rns

[two] mechanisms transpire

Kiwiland Bear

happen/issue

tschingite

realised mechanism

cyhul

two types of ... formation come into existence

Alexandra Taggart

arise

svetlana cosquéric

Discussion entries: 4

rns

@Andrei B

09:42 Nov 28, 2010

So, your suggested translation for

В жесткой оболочке с упругим днищем, которая частично заполнена жидкостью, реализуется, в основном, два механизма образования газовых пузырьков. Эти механизмы связаны с процессами разрушения свободной поверхности и нарушения сплошности жидкости.

is

... gas bubble formation mainly occurs via two mechanisms. These mechanisms are responsible for free-surface breakup and loss of fluid continuity.

is it not?

Andrei B

Your next sentence

09:14 Nov 28, 2010

is translated as follows:
"These mechanisms are responsible for free-surface breakup and loss of fluid continuity"

Notes:
1. The word "processes" is omitted as redundant since the processes ("...breakup" and "loss...") are named here
Redundancy of this kind is a Russianism typically found in phrases where "process of..." or "problem of..." is followed by the name of a process or a problem. By dropping these words, not a bit of scientific information is lost, but readability is improved by reducing "verbal entropy"
2. The phrase "связаны с" is another Russianism:
In English, "related to" and "associated with" generally refer to various degrees of (in)direct involvement, whereas the context is clearly about mechanisms that underlie (= are responsible for) gas bubble formation rather than being related to (or associated with) it (to some degree)

Nik-On/Off

Ukraine

ASKER

Ну вот следующее предложение еще

19:58 Nov 27, 2010

Эти механизмы связаны с процессами разрушения свободной поверхности и нарушения сплошности жидкости.

Nik-On/Off

Ukraine

ASKER

this is a repetition of

18:43 Nov 27, 2010

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/russian_to_english/science_general...
Need an alternative.

Answers

40 mins confidence:

the mechanism works

Explanation:
Если Вам нужны альтернативы... то это простейшая.

Example sentence(s):

We will formulate the conditions for the short distance physics under which our mechanism works.
We then describe yeast experiments indicating that a similar mechanism works in that eukaryote.

Victoria Lubashenko
Ukraine
Local time: 07:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Russian,

Ukrainian
PRO pts in category: 8

2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

are formed in two ways (this context)

Explanation:
It seems to me that often Russian "механизм" is not as mechanical as "mechanism" sounds in English.

Rachel Douglas
United States
Local time: 00:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 132

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Igor_2006

5 hrs

-> Thanks, Igor.

disagree

Andrei B: It only seems so to those with no background in natural sciences. In physics, the word механизм = mechanism refers to [a] known process[es] or interaction[s] invoked to explain a phenomenon being studied. The word 'way[s]' is never used in such contexts

11 hrs

-> Thx for discussing, despite the tone. Even in Russian, "механизм" is commoner in sci writing by mechanists than by others; for Eng., "never" is too categorical. "Way" & "via" are essentially the same, btw. Asker knows my background & what "3" grade means.

agree

rns: I'm nullifying the above disagree: it's ad hominem self-righteous rhetoric. A mechanism has never meant "[a] known process[es] or interaction[s] invoked to explain a phenomenon being studied", see http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mechanism

12 hrs

-> Thanks. I hope Jack Slep will chime in here, with the wisdom of his 60 years of experience in handling Russian scientific texts with both accuracy and finesse. Except he's so polite, I'm not sure he would want to.

2 hrs confidence:

let's cut this rhetorical device with a transform

Explanation:
Образование газовых пузырьков в жесткой оболочке с упругим днищем, которая частично заполнена жидкостью, в основном связано с процессами разрушения свободной поверхности и нарушения сплошности жидкости.

в основном связано с — mainly results from (для данного случая).

rns
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Russian
PRO pts in category: 39

1 hr confidence:

arise

Explanation:
надо бы поширше контекст посмотреть...

Hence, it must be postulated that the dominant transport mechanism arises from ...
linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/0022311569901780

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Note added at 3 hrs (2010-11-27 21:49:34 GMT)
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В свете добавленного контекста, например, можно как-то так:

.... the (gas-)bubble formation is initiated by ...

svetlana cosquéric
France
Local time: 06:35
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Russian
PRO pts in category: 16

4 hrs confidence:

[two] mechanisms transpire

Explanation:
Since you are looking for alternative wordings.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2010-11-27 22:56:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ot you could use "processes" instead.

Kiwiland Bear
New Zealand
Local time: 16:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Russian
PRO pts in category: 8

13 hrs confidence:

happen/issue

Explanation:
-

tschingite
Russian Federation
Local time: 07:35
Native speaker of:

Russian,

Tatar

51 mins confidence:

см. пояснение

Frequently, droplet or bubble formation occurs via a hydrodynamic instability
This energy is generally conserved in the form of ATP which, in plants, mainly occurs via two mechanisms

Reference: http://www.nrc.org/publications/MSM/2001/pdf/T32.7.pdf
Reference: http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S000527280000239...

Andrei B
Local time: 07:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Russian
PRO pts in category: 52

Grading comment

Всем огромное спасибо!

1 day 8 hrs confidence:

realised mechanism

Explanation:
++

cyhul
India
Local time: 10:05
Native speaker of:

Hindi

2 days 5 hrs confidence:

two types of ... formation come into existence

Explanation:
?

Alexandra Taggart
Russian Federation
Local time: 07:35
Native speaker of:

English,

Russian

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