погибшим... конструктивно погибшим

English translation: ...

13:27 Sep 13, 2010
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Ships, Sailing, Maritime / tax code - marine vessels
Russian term or phrase: погибшим... конструктивно погибшим
This is taken from Chapter 21 of the Russian Tax Code (the chapter on value added tax) and is explaining the particulars for tax agents to define the tax base of certain operations. This is in relation to the sale/transfer of property rights of vessels. My query is with regard to the word "погибшим" and "конструктивно погибшим". Do these mean sunk, shipwrecked, ruined, lost?? And how do these phrases differ? This is the full context:

"В случае если в течение десяти лет с момента регистрации судна в Российском международном реестре судов оно исключено из указанного реестра, кроме исключения вследствие признания судна погибшим, пропавшим без вести, конструктивно погибшим, утратившим качества судна в результате перестройки или любых других изменений, или ..."
Callum Walker
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:44
English translation:...
Explanation:
погибшее - means sunk
конструктивно погибшее - means wrecked and it's not possible or it's economically unreasonable to repair it

"Поврежденное судно считается конструктивно погибшим, если:
судно не может быть восстановлено ни в том месте, в котором судно находится, ни в любом другом месте, в которое судно может быть доставлено;
ремонт судна экономически нецелесообразен."
Selected response from:

NikV
Local time: 14:44
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +1...
NikV
5see
Michael Kislov
4 +1considered to be of a total constructive loss
Alexander Ryshow
4abandoned/discarded as a construction
Alexandra Taggart
Summary of reference entries provided
конструктивно погибшее судно
Alexander Ryshow

Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
...


Explanation:
погибшее - means sunk
конструктивно погибшее - means wrecked and it's not possible or it's economically unreasonable to repair it

"Поврежденное судно считается конструктивно погибшим, если:
судно не может быть восстановлено ни в том месте, в котором судно находится, ни в любом другом месте, в которое судно может быть доставлено;
ремонт судна экономически нецелесообразен."


    Reference: http://base.garant.ru/12115482/3/
NikV
Local time: 14:44
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Olga Cartlidge: so "beyond economic repair" would be just right.
1 hr
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25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
abandoned/discarded as a construction


Explanation:
Would mean that nothing would be done any further, the production of this (model) was discontinued.It happened to suprsonic Concord.

Alexandra Taggart
Russian Federation
Local time: 14:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian
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25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
see


Explanation:
Russian laws do nut define "погибшее судно", only "конструктивно погибшее судно"

So, just погибшее
means
sunk (and it wouldn't be possible to restore if it is lifted), totally (to a great degree) shipwrecked, totally ruined


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Note added at 29 mins (2010-09-13 13:57:04 GMT)
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I'd translate
"beyond repair" (without economic), see the first part of the definition

Michael Kislov
Russian Federation
Local time: 14:44
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
considered to be of a total constructive loss


Explanation:
constructively lost ship

Alexander Ryshow
Belarus
Local time: 14:44
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 11

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Alexandra Taggart: The word “constructive” here is reasonably understood in its factual sense. But constructive loss can also be a commersial loss.
53 mins
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Reference comments


4 mins peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: конструктивно погибшее судно

Reference information:
Кодекс торгового мореплавания Российской Федерации

Глава III. РЕГИСТРАЦИЯ СУДОВ И ПРАВ НА НИХ
Статья 49. Судно, конструктивно погибшее

Поврежденное судно считается конструктивно погибшим, если:

судно не может быть восстановлено ни в том месте, в котором судно находится, ни в любом другом месте, в которое судно может быть доставлено;

ремонт судна экономически нецелесообразен.

http://www.kadis.ru/kodeks.phtml?com=&kodeks=12&paper=49
http://www.pravo.by/dict/text.asp?t1=%u0421%u0423%u0414%u041...
http://base.garant.ru/12115482/3/
http://www.newsby.org/documents/kodeks/kod17/page6.htm

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Note added at 10 мин (2010-09-13 13:37:52 GMT)
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может, по-англ. будет так: constructively lost ship

Ships Registration Act - Part 1
- [ Перевести эту страницу ]
(a) if the Authority states in the direction that it is of the opinion that the ship has been either actually or constructively lost, taken by an enemy, ...
web.uct.ac.za/.../shiplaw/shipsreg.htm - Сохраненная копия - Похожие
#
FAQ - Laman Web Rasmi Jabatan Laut Malaysia
- [ Перевести эту страницу ]
(b) Registry closed on abandonment of ship as a wreck or constructively lost but subsequently recovered. (c) Registry closed following application to ...
www.marine.gov.my/.../FAQbkibi.html - Сохраненная копия - Похожие
# [PDF]
Ship Registration Act [No. 58 of 1998]
- [ Перевести эту страницу ]
Формат файлов: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Быстрый просмотр
(7) In the application of this Act, a ship is deemed to be constructively lost if—. (a) the ship is reasonably abandoned for the reason that its actual ...
www.info.gov.za/view/DownloadFileAction?id=70717
#
THE MERCHANT SHIPPING ACT, 1958
- [ Перевести эту страницу ]
Delivery of certificate of ship lost or ceasing to be an Indian ship.- (1) In the event of a registered ship being either actually or constructively lost, ...
shipping.gov.in/.../THE%20MERCHANT%20SHIPPING... - Сохраненная копия - Похожие
#
B. - Of Constructive Total Loss, and of Abandonment
- [ Перевести эту страницу ]
Such a loss is called a constructive total loss, or a technical total loss. ... (b) This exception does not apply where the ship is lost by a sale from ...
chestofbooks.com/.../B-Of-Constructive-Total-Loss-and-of-Abandonment.html - Сохраненная копия

Alexander Ryshow
Belarus
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 11

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Alexandra Taggart: Can you guess what is it about? Insurance.
31 mins
  -> спасибо, попробую запостить
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