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отрицать пользу попыток

English translation: thought that attempts ... would be of no use

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:отрицать пользу попыток
English translation:thought that attempts ... would be of no use
Entered by: Susan Welsh

15:08 Dec 28, 2011
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Ships, Sailing, Maritime / icebreaker to the North Pole
Russian term or phrase: отрицать пользу попыток
Mendeleyev is writing to Count Witte about Arctic exploration, and he is talking about Makarov's plans, which he himself disagreed with. The whole sentence is giving me grief, but first the queried phrase: my clunky draft is "rejected the advantage of attempting to cross the Pole to the Bering Strait"--but this makes no sense, because Mendeleyev also rejects that idea (for different reasons), so what "advantage" or "benefit" could be meant? Maybe "пользу" needs a different translation.

Адмирал Макаров **отрицал пользу попыток** пройти чрез полюс в Берингов пролив и ставил целью прохождение ледоколом к устьям Оби и Енисея, надеясь этим путем водить за собой торговые корабли и удлинить время навигации к устьям указанных рек, проходя на север от Новой Земли по прямому пути.

As for the last bit, I think it has to mean that the Admiral would FIRST go along the coastline to the mouths of the Ob and Yenisei rivers, and THEN head straight north from Novaya Zemlya. Without the "then," the geography of this makes no sense to me (since N.Z. is north of the Siberian coastline; first I thought he wanted to head to the Ob and Yenisei BY HEADING NORTH from N.Z., which makes no sense). I don't know how to post a separate question on this, since it's not a term question. Do you think I've got the meaning right?

Thanks!
Susan Welsh
United States
Local time: 13:42
thought that attempts ... would be of no use
Explanation:
Or "would be pointless".

As for the second part, I think the trick is that "от" does not mean "north from", but "north of".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2011-12-28 15:48:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In other words: "... to extend the navigation season for reaching the mouths of these rivers, by passing north of Novaya Zemlya on a straight (direct?) course." Or, maybe, "and then proceeding directly." I guess which one would be better depends on what port they were to set out from.

It seems to me he was proposing to use the route up and around Novaya Zemlya, as against hugging the coast of the mainland all the way. From the eastern tip of N.Z. it's a straight shot down to the Ob, or a straight sail a bit farther east, to the Yenisey. As opposed to poking along the coast to squeeze between N.Z. and the mainland, from the Barents Sea into the Kara Sea, and then follow the coastline all the way up and around the Yamal Peninsula. I don't know the marine geography, but presumably those routes would be frozen over earlier in the season.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-12-28 16:39:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Farther north may mean more ice, but that's only one factor. The depth of the water is an important one: shallows close to shore freeze sooner in the season. Evidently the Kara Sea is significantly colder than the waters on the other side of Novaya Zemlya, because N.Z. blocks the impact of the Gulf Stream. This book describes the freeze times of all kinds of straits and routes around there, at least as of 1978.
http://books.google.com/books?id=zG7Xz5eEIIsC&printsec=front...
Selected response from:

Rachel Douglas
United States
Local time: 13:42
Grading comment
Thanks!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +5thought that attempts ... would be of no use
Rachel Douglas
4discarded practicability of the efforts spent
Alexandra Taggart


  

Answers


25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
thought that attempts ... would be of no use


Explanation:
Or "would be pointless".

As for the second part, I think the trick is that "от" does not mean "north from", but "north of".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2011-12-28 15:48:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In other words: "... to extend the navigation season for reaching the mouths of these rivers, by passing north of Novaya Zemlya on a straight (direct?) course." Or, maybe, "and then proceeding directly." I guess which one would be better depends on what port they were to set out from.

It seems to me he was proposing to use the route up and around Novaya Zemlya, as against hugging the coast of the mainland all the way. From the eastern tip of N.Z. it's a straight shot down to the Ob, or a straight sail a bit farther east, to the Yenisey. As opposed to poking along the coast to squeeze between N.Z. and the mainland, from the Barents Sea into the Kara Sea, and then follow the coastline all the way up and around the Yamal Peninsula. I don't know the marine geography, but presumably those routes would be frozen over earlier in the season.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-12-28 16:39:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Farther north may mean more ice, but that's only one factor. The depth of the water is an important one: shallows close to shore freeze sooner in the season. Evidently the Kara Sea is significantly colder than the waters on the other side of Novaya Zemlya, because N.Z. blocks the impact of the Gulf Stream. This book describes the freeze times of all kinds of straits and routes around there, at least as of 1978.
http://books.google.com/books?id=zG7Xz5eEIIsC&printsec=front...

Rachel Douglas
United States
Local time: 13:42
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 36
Grading comment
Thanks!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Спасибо, comme toujours! I was too embarrassed to ask a Kudoz question for "от"!

Asker: Oy, I didn't think of that. Seems like a strange way to go--but then I'm no Arctic mariner. I figure that "more north means more ice, so more difficult." Maybe a Russian Navy veteran will chime in.

Asker: I think you're right. See p. 122: http://books.google.com/books?id=P_XMvr8LJAEC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=%22admiral+makarov%22+yermak+navigation+route&source=bl&ots=TSva4JGknj&sig=9soaBSfI7CIrRQZygg8eG4Q5-s8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2ET7Tq7CJsX30gGVxsj5AQ&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=kara%20route&f=false


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Yulia Savelieva: Yes to both. "North from" would be "следуя на север от" or "двигаясь на север от"
21 mins
  -> Thank you.
agree  The Misha
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Misha.
agree  MariyaN (X)
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Mariya.
agree  Ella Mykhailova
18 hrs
  -> Thanks, Ella.
agree  cyhul
13 days
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
discarded practicability of the efforts spent


Explanation:
.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2011-12-28 23:02:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

There were attempts, and some scientists/discoverers believed that they lead to success.

Alexandra Taggart
Russian Federation
Local time: 20:42
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian
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