XLI P [ili II] br. 1234/08

English translation: 41. Веће П. 1234/08

19:44 Oct 11, 2012
Serbian to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / Municipal court decision -- abbreviation
Serbian term or phrase: XLI P [ili II] br. 1234/08
This is a divorce decree from a Belgrade municipal court (први општински). The document is in Cyrillic except for numerals (dates, article numbers, and addresses are in Arabic numerals).

In the upper right corner are these letters: XLI II бр. 1234/08 (Because of the serif font and quality of the scan, I can't tell if the II is a Roman 2 or a Cyrillic P.)

If initials, what does L stand for? If Roman numerals: 41 2? And if a combination: 41 P? Could this be an abbreviation of a Latin phrase?

The context of the document does not give any clues -- for instance, the date of publication is 25.6.2008. The abbreviation is not repeated.

Thank you in advance for any ideas.

(Also, I know that бр. = br. = no. = number)
Paula Gordon
United States
Local time: 13:33
English translation:41. Веће П. 1234/08
Explanation:
Up to 2010. Trial Chambers had Arabic numerals. After 2010. they switched to Roman numerals, so this would be "41. (судско) Веће".
P. stands for litigation, i.e. "Парница".
O. (Оставина) would stand for Probate cause.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2012-10-12 07:50:43 GMT)
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Sorry, my mistake...Instead of Arabic numerals it should stand Roman and vice versa.

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Note added at 16 hrs (2012-10-12 12:43:41 GMT)
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41 is the name of the Trial Chamber. It could also be the 5th, or any other number. So, you should leave it as is.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2012-10-12 12:59:08 GMT)
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-Maybe the confusing part is number that repeats, 41.
-41. Trial Chamber does not have to do anything with the number of litigation/case/file. 4117 is just the number of the litigation.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2012-10-12 13:05:41 GMT)
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You should leave the Roman numerals, anyway.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2012-10-12 13:11:48 GMT)
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You`re welcome:)
Selected response from:

sanjamil
Grading comment
Spelled out: XLI Веће П. бр. 1234/08
in Latinica: XLI Veće P. br. 1234/08
P. stands for Parnica = Case no.
Veće is understood

4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
541. Веће П. 1234/08
sanjamil
1 +11st basic court, case no.... [not to be taken as definite]
Bojan Cimbaljević
Summary of reference entries provided
XLI
Gordana Sujdovic

Discussion entries: 8





  

Answers


24 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): +1
1st basic court, case no.... [not to be taken as definite]


Explanation:
The "P" there is most probably short for "predmet", the court case, matter, file. The "XLI" is a mystery to me... You say that the scan is blurry, It might very well be something like "Sud.", in Cyrillic, short for "sudski", court, judicial. It might as well be "Sud. P br." - judicial case no.

I have done similar translations, but for the life of me I cannot remember what is usual in this type of document, I would have to rummage around my files and maybe get back later if I find anything.

Again, it may be Roman numerals, but it looks highly unlikely to begin a header with Roman numerals. I just remembered, It might also be the title of the court: like "I OS P..." 1st basic court, case no.... or 1st municipal court, they had changed names, but I think later than 2008, so it was still called municipal court. The "o" there can stand either for "osnovni" or "opštinski". But again, this is only a conjecture.

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Note added at 28 mins (2012-10-11 20:13:15 GMT)
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BTW, the Cyrillic script does use Arabic numerals as part of it, so no big surprise there :) It also uses Roman numerals, but very rarely, since this is then a conflict between Latin and Cyrillic scripts. Arabic numerals are not understood as conflicting.

Bojan Cimbaljević
Serbia
Local time: 19:33
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Serbian
PRO pts in category: 12
Notes to answerer
Asker: P for Predmet is a very interesting idea. The XLI is not blurry at all.

Asker: Is there any logic to the idea that the court was established in 1967, so that the Roman numerals represent the 41st "edition" of the court (2008 - 41)? Can you tell I'm desperate?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Daryo: P(redmet) Br(oj) ... the rest is a mistery
4 hrs
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
41. Веће П. 1234/08


Explanation:
Up to 2010. Trial Chambers had Arabic numerals. After 2010. they switched to Roman numerals, so this would be "41. (судско) Веће".
P. stands for litigation, i.e. "Парница".
O. (Оставина) would stand for Probate cause.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2012-10-12 07:50:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, my mistake...Instead of Arabic numerals it should stand Roman and vice versa.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2012-10-12 12:43:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

41 is the name of the Trial Chamber. It could also be the 5th, or any other number. So, you should leave it as is.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2012-10-12 12:59:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

-Maybe the confusing part is number that repeats, 41.
-41. Trial Chamber does not have to do anything with the number of litigation/case/file. 4117 is just the number of the litigation.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2012-10-12 13:05:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

You should leave the Roman numerals, anyway.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2012-10-12 13:11:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

You`re welcome:)

sanjamil
Native speaker of: Serbian
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Spelled out: XLI Веће П. бр. 1234/08
in Latinica: XLI Veće P. br. 1234/08
P. stands for Parnica = Case no.
Veće is understood
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hi, Sanjamil, in this case, is it the 41st session of the year? Or the 41st year of the court's existence? (I was guessing the latter.) Also, I blocked the case number out, but it is 4117/08. So logical numbering (I know, I know) would indicate that this was the 17th case decided or heard in the 41st session of 2008. Do you have any other examples you could point me to? Thank you!

Asker: OK, I see. I was trying to force a logical connection. ;v) I appreciate the explanation.

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Reference comments


10 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: XLI

Reference information:
П = P (предмет=predmet=case)

XLI (I would leave as is)

In official documents, written in Cyrillic, Roman numerals are used e.g. for year - Official Gazettes - issue, or for number of amendments to laws, annual meetings, etc.)

www.roman-colosseum.info/roman-life/roman-numerals.htm
Converting numbers to Roman numerals can be tricky. ... The Latin word for 100 is centum and for 1000 is mille giving the numerals C and M. Roman ... 1, I, 11, X1, 21, XXI, 31, XXX1, 41, XLI,

sr.wikisource.org/wiki/Уставни_амандмани_XX_до_XLII_(1971)
18 јун 2011 – 1 АМАНДМАН XX; 2 АМАНДМАН XXI

www.temerin.rs/upload/.../Sluzbeni list - br. 3-08.pdf
Година XLI – Број 3. ... Скупштина општине Темерин на ХХХ седници, одржаној 17. марта 2008. године, донела

www.btopola.org.rs/dokumenti/...list/.../Sluzbeni list 1-09...
ОПШТИНЕ БАЧКА ТОПОЛА. TOPOLYA KÖZSÉG. HIVATALOS LAPJA. Број 1 – Година XLI. 14. јануар 2009. г. , Бачка Топола. XLI. évfolyam – 1 . szám ...

Gordana Sujdovic
Serbia
Works in field
Native speaker of: Serbian
PRO pts in category: 12
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thank you, Gordana.


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  M. Vučković
3 hrs
  -> Hvala
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