piedra desplazadora

English translation: pudding stone

14:51 Oct 3, 2017
Spanish to English translations [Non-PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Construction / Civil Engineering / Spanish from Uruguay
Spanish term or phrase: piedra desplazadora
Hi I am translating a list of construction terms. The exact phrase used here is:

HORMIGON CICLOPEO 50% DE PIEDRA DESPLAZADORA DOSIF:1:2:3

Which I understand to be Cyclopean Concrete composed of 50% ?? with a ratio of 1:2:3. I am thinking gravel for piedra desplazdora, the other two ingredientes being cement and sand. Or is piedra deslizadora considered sand??
Mary Gardner Hume
Argentina
Local time: 07:10
English translation:pudding stone
Explanation:
cyclopean concrete
Mass concrete in which large stones, each of 100 lb (45.4 kg) or more, are placed and embedded as the concrete is deposited; such a stone is called a pudding stone or plum; they are usually not less than 6 in. (15 cm) apart and not closer than 8 in. (20 cm) to any exposed surface. Also see rubble concrete.

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/cyclopean concret...

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Note added at 1 hr (2017-10-03 16:03:08 GMT)
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rubble concrete
1. Concrete similar to cyclopean concrete except that small stones (such as one man can handle) are used.
2. Concrete made with rubble from demolished structures.

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/rubble concrete

2. Materiales, herramientas y equipo.-
Las piedras serán de buena calidad, deberán pertenecer al grupo de las graníticas, estar libres de arcillas y presentar una estructura homogénea y durable. Estarán libres de defectos que alteren su estructura, sin grietas y sin planos de fractura o de desintegración. La dimensión mínima de la piedra a ser utilizada como deplazadora será de 20 cm. de diámetro o un medio (1/2) de la dimensión mínima del elemento a vaciar. En el caso de sobrecimientos la dimensión mínima de piedra desplazadora será de 10 cm.

http://www.emagua.gob.bo/sites/default/files/especificacione...

31. Plum Concrete • The original idea of the use of aggregate as an inert filler can be extended to the inclusion of large stones unto 300 mm size in a normal concrete; thus the apparent yield of concrete for a given amount of cement is increased. The resulting concrete is called ‘Plum Concrete’ or ‘Cyclopean Concrete’. • These large stones are called ‘plums’ and used in a large concrete mass. The volume of plums should not exceed 20 to 30 % of the total volume of the finished concrete and they have to be well dispersed throughout the mass. This is achieved by placing a layer of normal concrete, then spreading the plums, followed by another layer of concrete and so on. Care must be taken to ensure that no air is trapped underneath the stones. • The plums must have no adhering coating. Otherwise, discontinuities between the plums and the concrete may induce cracking and adversely affect permeability.

https://es.slideshare.net/gauravhtandon1/special-concretes-4...

Cyclopean concrete derives its name from this ancient method. It is a form of massed concrete in which stones are placed as the concrete is poured. These are called plums or pudding stones and are 100 pounds (45 kg) or more in weight. They are generally set at least 6 inches (15 cm) apart and no closer than 8 inches (20 cm) from any exposed surfaces.

https://www.britannica.com/technology/cyclopean-masonry

I'm looking at the size of the stones used in 'cyclopean concrete' and I think that 'rubble concrete' is a better translation for 'hormigón ciclopeo', in which case 'rubble stone' would be the translation of 'piedra desplazadora'.

https://es.glosbe.com/en/es/rubble concrete

160. Proportion And Size Of Stone

Usually the proportion of rubble stone is expressed in percentage of, the finished work. This percentage varies from 20 to 65 per cent. The percentage depends largely on the size of the stone used, as there must be nearly as much space left between small stones as between large ones. The percentage therefore increases with the size of the stones. When "one-man" or "two-men" rubble stone is used, about 20 per cent to 25 per cent of the finished work is composed of these stones. When the stones are large enough to be handled with a derrick, the proportion is increased to about 33 per cent; and to 55 per cent, or even 65 per cent, when the rubble stones average from 1 to 2 1/2 cubic yards each.

http://chestofbooks.com/architecture/Cyclopedia-Carpentry-Bu...

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Note added at 1 hr (2017-10-03 16:36:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

RUBBLE CONCRETE.—In constructing massive walls and slabs a reduction in cost may often (not always) be obtained by introducing large stones into the concrete. Concrete of this character is called rubble concrete, and the percentage of rubble stone contained varies from a few per cent. to, in some cases, over half of the volume.

Where the rubble stones are very large it is now customary to use the term "cyclopean masonry" instead of rubble concrete. Many engineers who have not studied the economics of the subject believe that the use of massive blocks of stone bedded in concrete necessarily gives the cheapest form of masonry. We have already indicated conditions where ordinary concrete is cheaper than rubble concrete. We may add that if the quarry yields a rock that breaks up naturally into small sized blocks, it is the height of economic folly to specify large sized cyclopean blocks. Nevertheless this blunder has been frequently made in the recent past.

http://www.basiccarpentrytechniques.com/Concrete Constructio...

In conclusion: cyclopean concrete contains pudding stones or plums;

rubble concrete contains rubble stone.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2017-10-03 17:57:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Los bolones desplazadores (término usado creo que en Chile, Bolivia y Perú) son lo que en la Argentina llamamos piedras bola o piedras bocha, o sea, grandes guijarros de 10 a 60 cm. de diámetro que se introducen, por ejemplo, en el hormigón con el objeto de reducir las contracciones, la producción de calor y el costo de los materiales caros como el cemento portland. Forma parte de lo que en inglés se denomina cyclopean concretes (hormigones ciclópeos) en donde los "bolones desplazadores" son simplemente "large embedded stones" o términos similares, y quizás se pueda usar "boulders".

Encontré en el glosario de terminología del American Concrete Institute que utilizan el término plum.

http://www.english-spanish-translator.org/general-spanish-en...
Selected response from:

Helena Chavarria
Spain
Local time: 12:10
Grading comment
Thanks Helena
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +1pudding stone
Helena Chavarria


  

Answers


44 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
pudding stone


Explanation:
cyclopean concrete
Mass concrete in which large stones, each of 100 lb (45.4 kg) or more, are placed and embedded as the concrete is deposited; such a stone is called a pudding stone or plum; they are usually not less than 6 in. (15 cm) apart and not closer than 8 in. (20 cm) to any exposed surface. Also see rubble concrete.

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/cyclopean concret...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2017-10-03 16:03:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

rubble concrete
1. Concrete similar to cyclopean concrete except that small stones (such as one man can handle) are used.
2. Concrete made with rubble from demolished structures.

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/rubble concrete

2. Materiales, herramientas y equipo.-
Las piedras serán de buena calidad, deberán pertenecer al grupo de las graníticas, estar libres de arcillas y presentar una estructura homogénea y durable. Estarán libres de defectos que alteren su estructura, sin grietas y sin planos de fractura o de desintegración. La dimensión mínima de la piedra a ser utilizada como deplazadora será de 20 cm. de diámetro o un medio (1/2) de la dimensión mínima del elemento a vaciar. En el caso de sobrecimientos la dimensión mínima de piedra desplazadora será de 10 cm.

http://www.emagua.gob.bo/sites/default/files/especificacione...

31. Plum Concrete • The original idea of the use of aggregate as an inert filler can be extended to the inclusion of large stones unto 300 mm size in a normal concrete; thus the apparent yield of concrete for a given amount of cement is increased. The resulting concrete is called ‘Plum Concrete’ or ‘Cyclopean Concrete’. • These large stones are called ‘plums’ and used in a large concrete mass. The volume of plums should not exceed 20 to 30 % of the total volume of the finished concrete and they have to be well dispersed throughout the mass. This is achieved by placing a layer of normal concrete, then spreading the plums, followed by another layer of concrete and so on. Care must be taken to ensure that no air is trapped underneath the stones. • The plums must have no adhering coating. Otherwise, discontinuities between the plums and the concrete may induce cracking and adversely affect permeability.

https://es.slideshare.net/gauravhtandon1/special-concretes-4...

Cyclopean concrete derives its name from this ancient method. It is a form of massed concrete in which stones are placed as the concrete is poured. These are called plums or pudding stones and are 100 pounds (45 kg) or more in weight. They are generally set at least 6 inches (15 cm) apart and no closer than 8 inches (20 cm) from any exposed surfaces.

https://www.britannica.com/technology/cyclopean-masonry

I'm looking at the size of the stones used in 'cyclopean concrete' and I think that 'rubble concrete' is a better translation for 'hormigón ciclopeo', in which case 'rubble stone' would be the translation of 'piedra desplazadora'.

https://es.glosbe.com/en/es/rubble concrete

160. Proportion And Size Of Stone

Usually the proportion of rubble stone is expressed in percentage of, the finished work. This percentage varies from 20 to 65 per cent. The percentage depends largely on the size of the stone used, as there must be nearly as much space left between small stones as between large ones. The percentage therefore increases with the size of the stones. When "one-man" or "two-men" rubble stone is used, about 20 per cent to 25 per cent of the finished work is composed of these stones. When the stones are large enough to be handled with a derrick, the proportion is increased to about 33 per cent; and to 55 per cent, or even 65 per cent, when the rubble stones average from 1 to 2 1/2 cubic yards each.

http://chestofbooks.com/architecture/Cyclopedia-Carpentry-Bu...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2017-10-03 16:36:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

RUBBLE CONCRETE.—In constructing massive walls and slabs a reduction in cost may often (not always) be obtained by introducing large stones into the concrete. Concrete of this character is called rubble concrete, and the percentage of rubble stone contained varies from a few per cent. to, in some cases, over half of the volume.

Where the rubble stones are very large it is now customary to use the term "cyclopean masonry" instead of rubble concrete. Many engineers who have not studied the economics of the subject believe that the use of massive blocks of stone bedded in concrete necessarily gives the cheapest form of masonry. We have already indicated conditions where ordinary concrete is cheaper than rubble concrete. We may add that if the quarry yields a rock that breaks up naturally into small sized blocks, it is the height of economic folly to specify large sized cyclopean blocks. Nevertheless this blunder has been frequently made in the recent past.

http://www.basiccarpentrytechniques.com/Concrete Constructio...

In conclusion: cyclopean concrete contains pudding stones or plums;

rubble concrete contains rubble stone.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2017-10-03 17:57:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Los bolones desplazadores (término usado creo que en Chile, Bolivia y Perú) son lo que en la Argentina llamamos piedras bola o piedras bocha, o sea, grandes guijarros de 10 a 60 cm. de diámetro que se introducen, por ejemplo, en el hormigón con el objeto de reducir las contracciones, la producción de calor y el costo de los materiales caros como el cemento portland. Forma parte de lo que en inglés se denomina cyclopean concretes (hormigones ciclópeos) en donde los "bolones desplazadores" son simplemente "large embedded stones" o términos similares, y quizás se pueda usar "boulders".

Encontré en el glosario de terminología del American Concrete Institute que utilizan el término plum.

http://www.english-spanish-translator.org/general-spanish-en...

Helena Chavarria
Spain
Local time: 12:10
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 176
Grading comment
Thanks Helena
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you Helena. Evidently this is not a very common expression! I appreciate all of your research!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Thomas Walker: Cyclopean concrete requires a lot of hand labor, preparing and placing the large stones; so it's not used much in the developed world these days. Rocks are cheaper than concrete, but the savings are more than offset by the higher labor costs.
4 days
  -> Thank you, Tom :-)
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