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French to English translations [PRO] Bus/Financial - Human Resources / executive employment contract
French term or phrase:forfait tous horaires
I’m having trouble finding a suitable expression in English for the above. This is in an employment contract for an executive:
"Compte tenu des fonctions qui vous sont confiées et de votre niveau de remuneration, vous serez amené à consacrer à la realisation de vos missions tout le temps qu’il sera necessaire dans le cadre d’un forfeit tous horaires." (excuse lack of some accents - they disappeared for some strange reason)
Obviously, phrases like “unlimited hours package”, “all hours package” or “any hours package” would not be suitable, although that is effectively what it means, i.e. the executive is expected to work all hours to get the work done!
Explanation: Whilst it is clear that the salary level is such that the person is expected to work whenever the job requires. As I understand it, it is emphasizing the fact the with the status/level/category inherent in the function of the job, there are no set working hours. It is defining the nature of the salary. This sort of thing is generally governed by law as it does (should) not amount to avoiding paying overtime, for example.
Certain levels of seniority require this as standard, to the extent that some employers try to change the label/status/level on which an employee is taken on officially, in order to avoid paying overtime which would otherwise we due. Label swopping to pay less. Grr!
I think you need to take a little bit more of the phrase into account, and consider a form of words, such as I have suggested, otherwise the dange ris that you might end up suggesting this is a bonus for accepting a slave-labor package, which is probably not the case. When I worked in the City of London, even as a graduate fresh out of college, this is what was expected. We had good salaries, good conditions, bonuses, health care all sorts of extras, but althoug there were "normal" office hours, it was also simply and clearly set out in our contract that we would work as nad when required.
Many thanks, Nikki - I ended up using this, as it fitted my context best! I just want to thank you also to everyone who contributed to this discussion - particularly Charles! You were correct in alluding to the Aubry Law and your references were also great! 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
Yes, I deleted my comment because I decided I didn't really want to go on debating this. But since you've replied anyway, I think I owe you an answer. To my mind "fixed salary" won't do, because it's not nearly specific enough: there are plenty of people who have a fixed salary (indeed, all employees do, on the most restrictive definition of "salary") but who don't belong to this category of "forfait tous horaires". I don't see it as a translation of the latter at all. Actually I don't think Phil is claiming that it is; his position, as I see it, is that you don't need to translate "forfait tous horaires", because it's merely repeating the bit about "tout le temps qu’il sera necessaire". I still disagree with that.
Is there an English expression that means "rémunération indépendante de tout horaire"? Well, I would say Nikki's answer, or something like it, is such an expression. It is no more descriptive/explanatory, to my mind, than the French one. I can't think of a shorter and better English expression that accurately expresses the point, which is why I agreed with Nikki and posted a reference rather than answering.
I think everyone agrees (I do anyway) that "forfait tous horaires" means "rémunération indépendante de tout horaire", an arrangement traditionally applied to employees of a "certain niveau", the disagreement seems to be whether that's what "fixed salary" means. For my money, it does, and this is clear from the rest of the sentence. There is no implication that there can't be variable elements of the package or that the salary can't increase, however this is arranged. From my experience of these contracts, all of the elements of the remuneration will be laid out in a detailed list, including gross fixed salary, variable performance bonus, profit sharing, allowances etc. Are you saying there is simply no expression in English that means "rémunération indépendante de tout horaire" and a descriptive/explanatory phrase will have to be used instead?
The employee's "salary" is not the same as the employee's total "remuneration", which can also contain variable elements such as performance bonuses, allowances of various sorts, etc, which these contracts usually lay out. The salary is fixed, which precisely means "doesn't vary with the number of hours worked" (as distinct from a "wage"), but other parts of the package can vary. "Fixed" also doesn't mean "can't increase", but such increases would be the subject of another contract.
"imposing your own views on what the source text should be saying"
Pardon me for saying, but I think that's a bit rich, considering that you're the one proposing to edit out alleged redundancy in the ST. I'm the one proposing translating what's there, neither more nor less.
I still think you're overtranslating, imposing your own views on what the source text should be saying. "Forfait" means "fixed".
You're effectively saying "You will work however many hours it takes, for a salary that takes no regard of how many hours it takes." That's repetition.
The two phrases you are treating as effectively synonymous are not synonymous. They are:
(a) vous serez amené à consacrer à la realisation de vos missions tout le temps qu’il sera necessaire (b) dans le cadre d’un forfeit tous horaires [rémunération indépendante de tout horaire]
You could either of these without the other. You could have unlimited hours but a salary dependent on hours worked, as some lawyers do: (a) not (b), or a maximum number of hours (say up to a maximum of 60 per week) with a salary not dependent on hours worked: (b) not (a).
So both phrases need to be translated in order to make it clear that in this case both (a) and (b) are true.
This is a contract of employment, a legal document. Hairs must be split. No possible ambiguity not present in the ST must be present in the translation. Elegance and brevity, desirable though they may be in general terms, are not the highest priorities here. The text must be proof against perverse readings.
I'm sorry, but it's not saying that they don't get paid overtime. This is right outside the 35 hours a week pattern. These are people with no set working hours at all. There is no such thing as "overtime" for such people. They are paid to perform "missions", however many (or few) hours it takes. They could conceivably work less than 35 hours if they get the job done.
The point they're making is that this employment contract falls under a certain mode of remuneration, recognised by the courts, and commonly (though apparently wrongly) referred to as "forfait sous horaires", though properly as "rémunération indépendante de tout horaire". Since the question term implies the latter, the latter must be reflected in the translation.
More to the point, perhaps, a salary that is not dependent on hours worked could be variable for reasons other than straightforward increase; it could be performance-related, for example.
Fixed means it doesn't change. It could change (it could be raised, for example) and still not vary with the number of hours worked. In other words, it could change regardless of the number of hours worked. If so, it is not fixed.
If you say "for a fixed salary" it means, or certainly could be taken to mean, that the salary is not subject to change. "Forfait tous horaires" carries no such implication.
I see no advantage in not translating what it says. The ST does not say the same thing twice. "Tout le temps qu’il sera nécessaire" says nothing about remuneration.
Explanation: You don't need to find a translation for "tous horaires, because they've already said "tout le temps qu'il sera nécessaire". They're saying the same thing twice. So I suggest something like "you will be required to work as many hours as necessary, for a fixed salary."
philgoddard United States Meets criteria Works in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 80
peer agreement (net): +4