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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

use or non-use of articles before acronyms

English answer:

the AHP of Malchut [to distinguish from other AHPs vs. AHP of Malchut [only AHP]

Added to glossary by Michael Powers (PhD)
Dec 17, 2007 02:07
16 yrs ago
2 viewers *
English term

use or non-use of articles before terms

English Art/Literary Linguistics
Dear colleagues, this is an editing question that I wanted to get your opinions on. I'll try to explain the issue briefly:

A spiritual Partzuf (a kind of system) consists of five parts: Galgalta, Eynaim, Awzen, Hotem, Peh. The five parts are divided into two groups: Galgalta, Eynaim and Awzen, Hotem, Peh. For the most part, only their initials are used: GE and AHP. GE and AHP are both terms. Now, when referring to the initials, are articles such as 'the' necessary? For example, which of the following options is proper grammar:
1) The complete return occurs when AHP of Malchut is corrected and joins GE at this degree.
2) The complete return occurs when the AHP of Malchut is corrected and joins the GE at this degree.

Furthermore, if both are proper grammar, which option flows better and reads easier? This is a very important point as well.

Thank you everyone in advance.
Responses
4 +4 the AHP of Malchut [to distinguish from other AHPs vs. AHP of Malchut [only AHP]
4 +2 See comments below...
3 -1 no need for article with abbr here
Change log

Dec 18, 2007 07:37: Michael Powers (PhD) Created KOG entry

Discussion

Tony M Dec 18, 2007:
(or not at all, as I believe is the case with RU) are often stumped by the rather subtle ‘rules’ governing the use of articles in EN. If you’re looking for an opinion on ‘naturalness’ and ‘ease of reading’, you really do need to have that ‘feel’ for it.
Tony M Dec 18, 2007:
It's a shame Vladimir was stung by my remark about non-natives; it was a general remark, not directed to him personally; but it is a fact that non-native English speakers, particularly from languages where articles are used differently from EN...
Vladimir Dubisskiy Dec 18, 2007:
Thank you. This only speaks by itself and somehow I believe the articles will not be used, pidgin or not. :-))
Mark Berelekhis (asker) Dec 18, 2007:
Vladimir, the matter is not yet settled, as this is not my decision alone, I am working on this with another editor :)
Vladimir Dubisskiy Dec 18, 2007:
To Mark: so what was your final decision - to use or not to use? (this is the question - not non-native/native jabs :-))
Vladimir Dubisskiy Dec 17, 2007:
Mark: that's what I did - in my view: looks, flows and reads better - without articles.
Mark Berelekhis (asker) Dec 17, 2007:
Michael, Vladimir, and whoever else may yet weigh in on the issue: grammar aside, please voice which option you think reads and flows better. Thank you.

Responses

+4
5 mins
Selected

the AHP of Malchut [to distinguish from other AHPs vs. AHP of Malchut [only AHP]

Mike :)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 mins (2007-12-17 02:14:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If there is more than one AHP, one from Malchut, another from ABC, etc., then the definite article is used to distinguish this in terms of specificity; however, if this is simply extraneous information, and not used to distinguish it from others, then no definite article is used.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-12-17 04:22:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Without knowing whether more than one AHP exists, I would use the defnite article since it appears that it is the specific AHP of Malchut.

YMCA is an acronym also, and we would say: They met at the Y in Miami to contrast it to the Y in Detroit. When more than one exists, you have to use the definite article to differentiate - it sounds better in this case, and it is required.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Yes, I totally agree; the mere fact that it is an abbreviation doesn't at all change the need (or not) for an article, and it certainly reads more naturally with them in this instance.
6 hrs
Thank you, Tony - Mike :)
agree Paula Vaz-Carreiro
8 hrs
Thank you, Paula - Mike :)
agree V_Nedkov
15 hrs
Thank you, V. - Mike :)
agree Alfa Trans (X)
10 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you everyone for your opinions and comments! It's difficult to allocate the points fairly, so I'm going with the answer that got the most agrees. A special thanks to Tony for further food for thought."
-1
1 hr

no need for article with abbr here

I would not use articles here as it seems to be clear enough without them, i mean we have, say, 'AHP of Malchut' and then there will be 'AHP of xxx' and 'AHP of zzz' - all those AHP are quite well defined by corresponding xxx and zzz.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-12-17 03:40:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Definitely no articles looks, flows, reads better (my opinion though).
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : Strongly! This is a typical mistake made by non-natives that makes it sound like pidgin English; for all the reasons stated by Michael, the article cannot be left out in the given context.
5 hrs
yes I am non-native English speaker but it looks and reads better anyway... (as i said it is my opinion based on my experience, pidgin or not :-)).
Something went wrong...
+2
6 hrs

See comments below...

The sentence sounds a bit stilted, whether or not the article is inserted. Part of this is in the nature of the subject being treated, I feel — but also, because the wording of the sentence as it stands using 'of Malchut' obliges one to insert 'the'. If instead the sentence were re-written as:

"The complete return occurs when Malchut's AHP is corrected and joins his / the GE at this degree"

It is the failure to use the possessive that actually makes the sentence read like non-native EN.

As a footnote, to a question you haven't asked, I wonder if in fact the very first 'the' at the head of the sentence isn't redundant? In many contexts, if one is referring to things in a generalized way, EN doesn't use a definite article where many other languages do:

"Revelation occurs when someone receives a sudden insight"
Peer comment(s):
agree Paula Vaz-Carreiro : I agree about the first 'the' (as well as with the rest :-)
1 hr
Thanks, Paula! :-)
agree V_Nedkov : Good explanation, Tony :)
8 hrs
Thanks a lot, V/N!
Something went wrong...
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