Jun 4, 2008 10:56
15 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term
Reibung
German to English
Tech/Engineering
Music
Does anyone know the english to express the idea that when two sounds are very close to each other but not identical, tehre will be interference between the two known as Reibung in German.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 2 +2 | dissonance |
Erik Freitag
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| 3 +1 | beat |
Christian Schneider
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| 3 | friction |
Barbara Wiebking
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| 3 | wobbles |
Jim Tucker (X)
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| 2 | inharmoniousness |
Jonathan MacKerron
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| 1 +1 | clashing (?) |
Alison MacG
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Proposed translations
+2
18 mins
Erik Freitag
Germany
Germany
Native in German
Specializes in field
Germany
Experienced, strong technical background
Native in: German 
Works in: Dutch to German, English to German, Flemish to German
Related KudoZ points
:
68
Selected
dissonance
I think that this covers it, although dissonance can occur at larger intervals, too.
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Note added at 1 Stunde (2008-06-04 12:05:23 GMT)
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At a second glance, I think that the translation might be still trickier: The German source contains an error! The definition in the source text is very clearly that of a "Schwebung" (two sounds are very close to each other but not identical), not a "Reibung". This would lead me to suggest "beat" as a translation for "Schwebung" rather than for "Reibung".
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Note added at 1 Stunde (2008-06-04 12:06:53 GMT)
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A "beat" between harmonics of different sounds is called a "Schwebung", when its frequency is rather low, and "Reibung", when it's higher.
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Note added at 1 Stunde (2008-06-04 12:22:18 GMT)
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Ok, good to know. If "Schwebung"/"beat" are already ruled out, I think that "dissonance" (as opposed to those) is quite likely correct.
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Note added at 2 Stunden (2008-06-04 13:42:15 GMT) Post-grading
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Well, "wobble" may sound colloquial, but it's a very usual technical term in physics (which acoustics are a part of).
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Note added at 1 Stunde (2008-06-04 12:05:23 GMT)
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At a second glance, I think that the translation might be still trickier: The German source contains an error! The definition in the source text is very clearly that of a "Schwebung" (two sounds are very close to each other but not identical), not a "Reibung". This would lead me to suggest "beat" as a translation for "Schwebung" rather than for "Reibung".
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Note added at 1 Stunde (2008-06-04 12:06:53 GMT)
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A "beat" between harmonics of different sounds is called a "Schwebung", when its frequency is rather low, and "Reibung", when it's higher.
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Note added at 1 Stunde (2008-06-04 12:22:18 GMT)
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Ok, good to know. If "Schwebung"/"beat" are already ruled out, I think that "dissonance" (as opposed to those) is quite likely correct.
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Note added at 2 Stunden (2008-06-04 13:42:15 GMT) Post-grading
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Well, "wobble" may sound colloquial, but it's a very usual technical term in physics (which acoustics are a part of).
Note from asker:
| I already had beat for schwebung, but the text makes a distinction between the two. |
| The probolem with dissonance is that it is also a subjective term for all sorts of combinations of sounds and not strictly speaking the field of "friction"; still, it might be the best solution, though I like "wobbles", if only it didn't sound so colloquial! |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Jonathan MacKerron
: wouldn't that be "Dissonanz"?
0 min
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I think Dissonanz and Reibung mean more or less the same in German.
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| agree |
Jim Tucker (X)
: This may well be what the asker is after, unless he specifically wants a defect in tuning or modern effect of less than a half-step, which I tried to handle in my answer.
43 mins
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Thanks!
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| agree |
Kinga Elsewesi-Korcsmaros
2 hrs
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Thanks!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Though I ended up by providing an explanation and combining information from both you and Jim Tucker. Dissonance and inharmonious I think are both inappropriate."
9 mins
Barbara Wiebking
Germany
Germany
Native in German
Works in field
Germany
Translations from EN, FR, IT into German
Native in: German 
Works in: English to German, French to German, Italian to German
8 mins
Jonathan MacKerron
Native in English
Retired as of Jan 2019!
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
43
inharmoniousness
according to one online dictionary
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Note added at 12 mins (2008-06-04 11:08:59 GMT)
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Webster for inharmonious " UNMUSICAL, DISCORDANT *inharmonious sounds*"
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Note added at 19 mins (2008-06-04 11:15:25 GMT)
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rasping/abrasive
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Note added at 12 mins (2008-06-04 11:08:59 GMT)
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Webster for inharmonious " UNMUSICAL, DISCORDANT *inharmonious sounds*"
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Note added at 19 mins (2008-06-04 11:15:25 GMT)
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rasping/abrasive
+1
1 hr
Alison MacG
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Patents and related material specialist
Native in: English (Variants: Scottish, UK, British)
Works in: German to English, French to English, Swedish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
clashing (?)
This is not strictly an answer, but rather an illustration of the fact that you are not the first to have encountered difficulties with this term.
I feel the chromaticism more deeply, and because the voices have no vibrato whatsoever, the voices achieve an ideal blend and the pure tones at certain intervals resound in my head with what in German is called “Reibung,” a word for which I can not find a good English equivalent (‘a clashing? friction?) It must have something to do with the ‘beating’ that occurs when intervals are ‘tuned.’
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV60-D2.htm
I feel the chromaticism more deeply, and because the voices have no vibrato whatsoever, the voices achieve an ideal blend and the pure tones at certain intervals resound in my head with what in German is called “Reibung,” a word for which I can not find a good English equivalent (‘a clashing? friction?) It must have something to do with the ‘beating’ that occurs when intervals are ‘tuned.’
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV60-D2.htm
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Jim Tucker (X)
: Well I guess I'm everybody's friend today. This is not inconceivable either, and asker should also consider your "beating"/beats// What's the definition of a minor second? Two oboes playing in unison.
13 mins
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Thanks. Yes, it may well depend on David's particular context, e.g. "beating multiphonics" on oboe.//Good one - I'm a flute player, so I'm fine with oboe jokes!
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23 mins
wobbles
Good question - lifelong musician here and this is what we say in rehearsal - when two pitches are slightly out of sync and they have frequency wave issues. I'm not sure there is a better term, but there may be - so I'll do a CL of 3.
Here's a quote that uses the term in the sense I think you mean:
Guitarists hear these wave cancellations as "wobbles" when tuning two strings to each other. The faster the wobbling sound, the more cancellations there are per second, and the farther away the pitches are from each other. As you bring the two strings closer together in pitch, the size of the sound waves will be closer to each other. This creates fewer "wobbles" per second.
http://www.accentonmusic.com/article_2.html
It won't really help to google "intonation wobbles" or the like, because that term is usually used to indicate a performer's "drift" in pitch, or a singer's technique. In other words, a google will give a lot of bad hits.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-06-04 13:44:08 GMT) Post-grading
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Also consider "intonation beats"
Seasoned players are aware that it is much more difficult playing in tune with a keyboard instrument than it is with either winds or strings. In addressing intonation, it is essential to eliminate intonation 'beats.' These beats are a result of a cancellation of vibration when two sounds of very near frequency cancel out one another. The more out of phase the notes are, the faster the 'beats' become.
http://music.ou.edu/applied/horn/blend.html
This one can actually be googled.
Here's a quote that uses the term in the sense I think you mean:
Guitarists hear these wave cancellations as "wobbles" when tuning two strings to each other. The faster the wobbling sound, the more cancellations there are per second, and the farther away the pitches are from each other. As you bring the two strings closer together in pitch, the size of the sound waves will be closer to each other. This creates fewer "wobbles" per second.
http://www.accentonmusic.com/article_2.html
It won't really help to google "intonation wobbles" or the like, because that term is usually used to indicate a performer's "drift" in pitch, or a singer's technique. In other words, a google will give a lot of bad hits.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-06-04 13:44:08 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
Also consider "intonation beats"
Seasoned players are aware that it is much more difficult playing in tune with a keyboard instrument than it is with either winds or strings. In addressing intonation, it is essential to eliminate intonation 'beats.' These beats are a result of a cancellation of vibration when two sounds of very near frequency cancel out one another. The more out of phase the notes are, the faster the 'beats' become.
http://music.ou.edu/applied/horn/blend.html
This one can actually be googled.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Erik Freitag
: I think that would rather be "Schwebung" in German, unless the wobble frequency is quite high, when it becomes a "Reibung".
12 mins
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Thanks, could easily be - but the question then becomes what you call a high wobble frequency in English, as they're still wobbles. Wonder if there's anything else between this and flat-out (no pun) dissonance.
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+1
5 hrs
Christian Schneider
Germany
Germany
Native in German
Germany
Engineer and Certified Translator
Native in: German
Works in: English to German, Italian to German, Portuguese to German
Related KudoZ points
:
4
beat
I'd go for beat (Schwebung).
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Jim Tucker (X)
: would specify "intonation beat" or "frequency beat(s)" to distinguish this from rhythmic beats (though note that this answer has already been given twice above)
1 hr
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Discussion