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tenant involvement officer
of two hours duration each
Jan 14, 2009 10:35
15 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term

which are crucial for learners both to progressively understanding

English Other Linguistics
proofreading. Is this structure grammatically correct? Does it sound ok? Thanks

The courses aim to introduce learners to the fundamental grammatical rules of the Spanish language, which are crucial for learners both to progressively understanding the way these structures are used in real situations —specific and general— by native speakers, and to manipulating the language to suit their personal needs.
Responses
4 +5 radical rewrite
4 +2 which are crucial for learners both to progressively understand
4 +1 which are crucial for learners to both progressively understand
5 Just a small change, see below

Responses

+5
1 hr
Selected

radical rewrite

I'm not at all fond of 'both... x and y' when x and y are relatively long or complex phrases, as in this case. IMO it does not contribute to ready comprehension.
Also, 'manipulate' often has a negative connotation in English in the sense of misusing something or using something in an unnatural manner, so I would not use 'manipulate the language'.

If it were my text, I would write:

... which are crucial for learners as they they gradually develop an understanding of how these structures are used by native speakers in real situations, both specific and general, and as they learn how to use the language for their own needs.

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Note added at 1 hr (2009-01-14 12:16:08 GMT)
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Oops -- drop the extra 'they'.
Peer comment(s):
agree cmwilliams (X) : yes, much better
9 mins
agree Enza Longo : definitely better but wouldn't this rewrite be more of an editing rather than proofreading job?/ yes, in my experience as well
21 mins
In my experience 'proofreading' usually means editing. Marking grammatical errors may be proofreading, but correcting them is editing, and aside from the question of readable style, these are major grammatical errors.
agree Tina Vonhof (X)
1 hr
agree Gunilla Zedigh
1 day 20 hrs
agree Alexandra Taggart : Raw sentences...You cooked it to a turn.
3 days 9 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+2
12 mins

which are crucial for learners both to progressively understand

I think now it's ok...
Peer comment(s):
agree Enza Longo : also, a comma should be placed after 'learners' and the same applies for 'to manipulating' later on - it should be 'to manipulate'
8 mins
exactly...
agree Tina Vonhof (X) : Ok but I would prefer the re-wording suggested by Ken. Don't agree with Enza: it is 'crucial to understanding' and 'crucial to manipulating'.
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
23 mins

which are crucial for learners to both progressively understand

I'd go for *to both* rather than *both to*
But then I'd prefer not to use the word both and say, "..for learners to.....*as well as*..."

Also, "to" has to be followed by an infinitive, that's why "to...understanding.... and to manipulating.." won't do.
Peer comment(s):
agree cmwilliams (X) : I also prefer 'to understand ..... as well as .....'
4 mins
Something went wrong...
43 mins

Just a small change, see below

by native speakers, and to be able to manipulate the language to suit their personal needs.
Something went wrong...
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