Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Persian (Farsi) term or phrase:
Sermin (given name)
English translation:
شرمین (sharmin)
Added to glossary by
Behzad Molavi
May 1, 2009 08:12
15 yrs ago
Persian (Farsi) term
سرمين
Non-PRO
Persian (Farsi) to English
Other
Names (personal, company)
Personal Names
Greetings,
A friend from the Turkish church in Izmir I attend is greatly in need of encouragement.
Her name is Sermin, and although this is very much a Turkish name, I believe that its origin is Persian, as is the case with a great number of Turkish names. I have a Turkish-language dictionary of Turkish names, and if I translate the meaning given under “Sermin” from the original language it comes out like this:
“Mature, someone who has passed through various trials and tribulations, purified, someone who has passed the test and has the right to take up a leading position.”
Now, from a point of view of encouraging Sermin in her tribulations, this is almost too good to be true. However, does “Sermin” really carry all these implications?
All the best, and many thanks,
Simon
PS My reasons for believing that “Sermin” is of Persian origin are as follows:
1. The first element is identical with the Turkish version of “sar”, meaning “head”.
2. Arabic roots usually consist of three recognisable root letters.
A friend from the Turkish church in Izmir I attend is greatly in need of encouragement.
Her name is Sermin, and although this is very much a Turkish name, I believe that its origin is Persian, as is the case with a great number of Turkish names. I have a Turkish-language dictionary of Turkish names, and if I translate the meaning given under “Sermin” from the original language it comes out like this:
“Mature, someone who has passed through various trials and tribulations, purified, someone who has passed the test and has the right to take up a leading position.”
Now, from a point of view of encouraging Sermin in her tribulations, this is almost too good to be true. However, does “Sermin” really carry all these implications?
All the best, and many thanks,
Simon
PS My reasons for believing that “Sermin” is of Persian origin are as follows:
1. The first element is identical with the Turkish version of “sar”, meaning “head”.
2. Arabic roots usually consist of three recognisable root letters.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | شرمین (sharmin) |
Behzad Molavi
|
| 5 +1 | It doesn't have a Persian root. In Turkish it means "Lover" more than what you expect it to mean. |
Salman Rostami
|
Change log
May 2, 2009 16:41: Behzad Molavi Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
21 hrs
Behzad Molavi
Australia
Australia
Native in Persian (Farsi)
Australia
Practical, Punctual & Prestigious
Native in: Persian (Farsi) 
Works in: Persian (Farsi) to English, English to Persian (Farsi)
Selected
شرمین (sharmin)
As our dear colleague Mr. Rostami has rightly mentioned, in Turkish the correct spelling of the name in question is Şermin. Just like in Turkish, Sharmin is also a female name in Persian consisting of sharm (shame, pudency and modesty) + -in (adjective-forming suffix). In Persian, we can come up with numerous female names of similar build such as mah-in, shir-in, narm-in, and sim-in.
"-in" - further being a multifunctional suffix like the ending part of the superlative-forming suffix ترین - grants the resulting adjective a higher quality than the original noun implies, a tenacity, maturity and virtue that lingers in the mind. Give the following couplet from Hafez to any given Persian speaker and allow them to judge how they feel about the two adjectives formed with -in:
ببرد از من قرار و طاقت و هوش
بت سنگین دل سیمین بناگوش
As a result, Sharmin may bear a vast amplification of the meanings suggested by sharm, from bashful and reserved to graceful and sober. No wonder, the significance and pervasiveness of Sharmin has been greatly enhanced in the destination language.
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Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2009-05-02 11:59:23 GMT)
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Dear Simon,
Although, I was greatly persuaded by your clarification about Sermin, I felt bound to double check Dehkhoda dictionary for any occurrences of Sarmin in Persian language and voilà! I serendipitously stumbled upon our much sought-after missing link. Character conversions among Persian, Arabic and various Iranian languages and local dialects have always been a source of inspiration to poets and are yet to be fully recorded. Perhaps, you did not need to go as far as Greek language to explain the mispronounciation of sarmin.
http://www.loghatnaameh.com/dehkhodaworddetail-6ac73c9ef5fc4...
This is what Dehkhoda writes:
در تعریب گاه بدل از شین آید:
شرمین = سرمین
شاپور= سابور
شمیران = سمیران
Notwithstanding the folk etymology of the name, now you can almost be certain that Sermin is a Turko-arabicized form of Sharmin. This transformation could have historically happened either during Persianized Seljuk rule of Asia Minor or Ottoman era when passion for Persian and Arabic literature engulfed the courts of the Ottomans.
"-in" - further being a multifunctional suffix like the ending part of the superlative-forming suffix ترین - grants the resulting adjective a higher quality than the original noun implies, a tenacity, maturity and virtue that lingers in the mind. Give the following couplet from Hafez to any given Persian speaker and allow them to judge how they feel about the two adjectives formed with -in:
ببرد از من قرار و طاقت و هوش
بت سنگین دل سیمین بناگوش
As a result, Sharmin may bear a vast amplification of the meanings suggested by sharm, from bashful and reserved to graceful and sober. No wonder, the significance and pervasiveness of Sharmin has been greatly enhanced in the destination language.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2009-05-02 11:59:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Dear Simon,
Although, I was greatly persuaded by your clarification about Sermin, I felt bound to double check Dehkhoda dictionary for any occurrences of Sarmin in Persian language and voilà! I serendipitously stumbled upon our much sought-after missing link. Character conversions among Persian, Arabic and various Iranian languages and local dialects have always been a source of inspiration to poets and are yet to be fully recorded. Perhaps, you did not need to go as far as Greek language to explain the mispronounciation of sarmin.
http://www.loghatnaameh.com/dehkhodaworddetail-6ac73c9ef5fc4...
This is what Dehkhoda writes:
در تعریب گاه بدل از شین آید:
شرمین = سرمین
شاپور= سابور
شمیران = سمیران
Notwithstanding the folk etymology of the name, now you can almost be certain that Sermin is a Turko-arabicized form of Sharmin. This transformation could have historically happened either during Persianized Seljuk rule of Asia Minor or Ottoman era when passion for Persian and Arabic literature engulfed the courts of the Ottomans.
Note from asker:
| Many, many thanks for the excellent help on the name Şermin. Indeed, when I look on the Net, Şermin is far commoner than Sermin. Even when I find Sermin, it turns out to be Şermin without diacritics. In spite of all this, for reasons of integrity I feel obliged to point out that my sister in Christ is definitely Sermin and not Şermin. Furthermore, in the dictionary “Türk ad ve soyadı sözlüğü” (Dictionary of Turkish names and surnames) by M. Kemal Çalık we find on page 203 the following: SERMİN: Olgunlaşmış, çeşitli olay, deney ve yaşam kavgalarından süzülmüş, arınmış, sınavını vermiş ve başa geçmeye hak kazanmış. SERMİN: Mature, having been put through various incidents, tests and struggles to stay alive, purified, having passed her test and earned the right to occupy the foremost place. The Turkish is too beautifully expressed for any poor translation of mine to do it justice (this is my second attempt), but that's my best shot. However, on p.215 we find: ŞERMIN: Utangaç ŞERMIN: Bashful However, names are a law unto themselves. Given the fact that Greeks and Turks lived side by side for 400 years, and that Greeks, owing to the nature of their own language, have trouble pronouncing the letter Ş, almost invariably pronouncing it as S, it's very easy to imagine a Greek mispronouncing Şermin as Sermin. Perhaps a Turkish neighbour, on hearing the mispronunciation, took a liking to it and it caught on. The name could subsequently have been given a kind of folk etymology based on “ser + emin”, lit. “head safe/secure”. Certainly, when I mentioned the name Sermin to my Turkish brother-in-law, he immediately said that it must come from “ser + emin”. There seem to be precedents for an initial E (Persian A) before an M being dropped: cf. ميرزا for اميرزاده. So, who knows? Perhaps all of us are right! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Ryan Emami
4 hrs
|
|
thank you
|
|
| agree |
Hossein Abbasi Mohaghegh
: H.A.Mohaghegh
5 hrs
|
|
thank you
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "many thanks, a really excellent answer in every way"
+1
32 mins
Salman Rostami
Canada
Canada
Native in Persian (Farsi)
Canada
Quality is not an accident!
Native in: Persian (Farsi) 
Works in: English to Persian (Farsi), Persian (Farsi) to English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
It doesn't have a Persian root. In Turkish it means "Lover" more than what you expect it to mean.
Şermin:Shy, bashful. Şeyda - Love crazed, mad, insane
This is the exact meaning of "Sermon" taken from www.turkishculture.org/pages and if I translate these adjectives into English, they would become:خجالتی-با حیا-دلداده and شیفته which have somehow the same connotation. As I checked in "Great Islamic Encyclopedia", I found that the name "Sermain" is a Turkish name which has been used in Syria and Iraq by Arabs which means "Lover" but it is not an Arabic Name.
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Note added at 44 mins (2009-05-01 08:56:28 GMT)
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Sermin and Sheida (or Seyda in Turkish) are both Used by Arabs in Syria and Iraq and they both have the same connotation which means to be a real lover although "Sermin" has a different meaning in Turkish itself and it means "Shy or Bashful". In Persian we have had "Sheida" (Seyda in Turkish) from about 800 years ago and you can find it in Hafiz Divan and Sa'di's great book "Orchard" and in both this books it was used to mean "lover" or better to say "An optimist lover".
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-05-01 10:24:52 GMT)
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I found that the first part of this word is not "Sar" which means "Head" in Persian. It is "Serm" and there is another Turkish word which is "Sermdan" and has "Serm" as the Root and "dan" which means a place for sth. as a Suffix.
This is the exact meaning of "Sermon" taken from www.turkishculture.org/pages and if I translate these adjectives into English, they would become:خجالتی-با حیا-دلداده and شیفته which have somehow the same connotation. As I checked in "Great Islamic Encyclopedia", I found that the name "Sermain" is a Turkish name which has been used in Syria and Iraq by Arabs which means "Lover" but it is not an Arabic Name.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 44 mins (2009-05-01 08:56:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Sermin and Sheida (or Seyda in Turkish) are both Used by Arabs in Syria and Iraq and they both have the same connotation which means to be a real lover although "Sermin" has a different meaning in Turkish itself and it means "Shy or Bashful". In Persian we have had "Sheida" (Seyda in Turkish) from about 800 years ago and you can find it in Hafiz Divan and Sa'di's great book "Orchard" and in both this books it was used to mean "lover" or better to say "An optimist lover".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2009-05-01 10:24:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I found that the first part of this word is not "Sar" which means "Head" in Persian. It is "Serm" and there is another Turkish word which is "Sermdan" and has "Serm" as the Root and "dan" which means a place for sth. as a Suffix.
Example sentence:
Şermin:Shy, bashful. Şeyda - Love crazed, mad, insane
Reference:
Discussion