Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term
United States
Psychology, economics, politics
Native in: English 
Works in: Russian to English, German to English, English
kennen
behaupteten, Soldatinnen würden in muslimischen Gesellschaften nicht anerkannt, obwohl viele Heere in islamischen Ländern auch Frauen kennen.
I should think "kennen" here would mean include, but I don't know that it is ever used that way--nor do I know whether armies in Islamic countries include women. It seems ridiculous to say that they "know" women (what, didn't the soldiers have a mother?).
Any help would be appreicated!
| 4 +1 | include |
Henry S
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| 4 +5 | it is not unknown |
Lancashireman
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| 4 +2 | include |
philgoddard
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| 4 -1 | recognize |
transworder
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| 3 | have |
Maureen Millington-Brodie
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Dec 8, 2009 22:52: Astrid Elke Witte changed "Term asked" from "kennen (hier)" to "kennen"
Non-PRO (1): Lancashireman
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Proposed translations
include
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
include
| agree |
Norbert Hermann
: This has to be it. Alternative perhaps 'embrace' - or maybe rather not ;-)
5 mins
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Maybe not embrace... thanks!
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| agree |
Paul Cohen
: pas besoin de chercher midi à 14 heures! // Meaning that it's the most obvious solution, if you'll pardon my French. No need to look any further, in my opinion.
2 hrs
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I have no idea what you're talking about, but thanks for agreeing with me.
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| neutral |
Lancashireman
: Réponse au M Cohen: À moins que vous habitez en France sur le méridien de Greenwich et c'est l'été.
5 hrs
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recognize
Arabian laws do not recognize women as ordinary army soldiers and do not treat them according to international conventions when captured. The Americans apply the same trick and do not recognize men in civil clothing as army soldiers and arrest them in Guantanamo as civilian terrorists.
Almost any country in the world is employing women, but on positions, not directly exposing them to fire.
| disagree |
Paul Cohen
: anerkannt = recognized. The word 'kennen' means something else here.
2 hrs
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United Kingdom
33 years of experience
Native in: English
Works in: Arabic to English, German to English
have
it is not unknown
http://tinyurl.com/yc2jp7x
This way, you keep the sense of the German verb ‘kennen’.
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-12-08 21:56:52 GMT)
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Recent KudoZ experience has taught me to cover all the angles:
“…although the armed forces of certain Islamic countries have been known to recruit women members.” Not quite as natural sounding, but it is a viable alternative that is phrased as a positive.
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Note added at 1 day15 hrs (2009-12-10 12:08:40 GMT) Post-grading
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Thank you so much for your closing comment. It appears that, once again, the consensus view amongst peers was off target.
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Note added at 8 days (2009-12-17 17:42:37 GMT) Post-grading
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Kindly withdraw your reference to 'sarcasm' below, as this is a clear breach of KudoZ rules. I am not in the habit of complaining to moderators but may make an exception in this case.
| I agree with Phil that this doesn't work because of the word "viele," which you have changed to "certain" -- implying "not many, but some." |
| Is your addendum intended to be sarcastic? "Consensus among peers" should never be the basis for deciding anything, certainly not Kudoz answers. I have tried to explain my reasoning, and I appreciate your help to find the right term. Ultimately, it is the brain of the translator who is familiar with the job as a whole that has to make the judgment, peers or no peers. |
| agree |
David Williams
: Sounds like a good solution to me // What do you mean by that???
18 mins
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Thanks D. Asker always knows best ;-)
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| agree |
Tom Feise
: yeah, and women in "modern" armies are sometimes not allowed to carry arms, i.e. act as soldiers, or even vote, so this is a good work-around
29 mins
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Thanks T. Asker preferred own solution.
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| agree |
Susanne Rindlisbacher
40 mins
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| neutral |
philgoddard
: The context actually says that "many" Islamic countries'armies include women, so I'm not sure if "not unknown" is appropriate.
1 hr
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I don’t feel that ‘include’ is the verb of choice here. The army includes 18-year-olds? The navy includes people with disabilities? The air force includes pilots? KudoZ includes non-native speakers?
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| agree |
seehand
13 hrs
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| agree |
Bernhard Sulzer
: "kennen" simply means "do this" here. I would simply go with "recruit women" or "have been recruiting"; or turn it around: the recruitment of women is practiced by/is common practice/quite poss.:)
1 day 4 hrs
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Thanks B. I suspect that the client will feel reassured to see 'know(n)' featuring in this section of the the translated text.
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Reference comments
Israel
Scientist and Translator
Native in: German
Works in: English to German, Hebrew to German, Latin to German, and 3 more.
This is the original work referred to
On page 37 is the paragraph about women in the military in muslim countries
| Thank you, that's very helpful. |
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