Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Nov 14, 2010 07:05
13 yrs ago
Italian term
Elleporo
Italian to English
Art/Literary
Archaeology
La battaglia presso Elleporo, in Magna Graecia
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | Helleporus |
Giles Watson
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| 4 +2 | Battle of the Elleporus |
Gad Kohenov
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Proposed translations
10 mins
Selected
Helleporus
The battle is presumably the defeat of the Italiote League by Dionysius of Syracuse in 389 BC on the banks of the river Helleporus.
HTH.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2010-11-14 09:40:14 GMT)
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"Helleporus" is a traditional latinised spelling. The original Greek name used by Diodorus Siculus (14.104) is 'Ελεπορος with a smooth breathing, which would be "Eleporos" without the initial "h" if transcribed into English.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19...
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Note added at 3 hrs (2010-11-14 10:24:09 GMT)
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@ Panagiotis: I did point out in my first note that the breathing in 'Ελέπορος is at odds with the traditional English spelling, which evidently calques other place names like "Hellespont".
The choice between "Hellesporus" and "Elesporos" will depend on the context of the translation.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2010-11-14 10:25:39 GMT)
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That should be "Helleporus" and "Eleporos" of course.
HTH.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2010-11-14 09:40:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"Helleporus" is a traditional latinised spelling. The original Greek name used by Diodorus Siculus (14.104) is 'Ελεπορος with a smooth breathing, which would be "Eleporos" without the initial "h" if transcribed into English.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2010-11-14 10:24:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
@ Panagiotis: I did point out in my first note that the breathing in 'Ελέπορος is at odds with the traditional English spelling, which evidently calques other place names like "Hellespont".
The choice between "Hellesporus" and "Elesporos" will depend on the context of the translation.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2010-11-14 10:25:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
That should be "Helleporus" and "Eleporos" of course.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Panagiotis Andrias (X)
: Ciao, caro Giles. Ελεπορος mica si scriveva con la daseia (spiritus asper) sulla E iniziale, bensì con la psile, lo spiritus lenis... Per cui, non vedo perchè lo si debba trascrivere in latino con la h... / :))
2 hrs
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Neanch'io ne vedo il motivo ma così è ;-) There are many aspects of language, including many established spellings, that run contrary to logic. "Helleporus" is one of them. It's one valid option, though. The other is "Eleporos". Φιλικά, Τζάιλς
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| neutral |
Jim Tucker (X)
: There is confusion about the name even in the ancient sources, which is only compounded by the manuscript tradition of leaving out breathings. For Hellespont we know the etymology: Ἕλλη...// Diod. calls it "Helorus" AFAIK, poss. due to haplography.
4 hrs
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There's only the one lambda in 'Ελεπορος in Diodorus Siculus. I don't think there's much point taking textual criticism too far: tradition (Helleporus) of etymology (Eleporos) look the safest bets.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I was actually able to figure it out on my own right after I asked my question...but those ancient river names are a toughy! thanks I did prefer using Helleporus instead of Elleporus"
+2
1 hr
Gad Kohenov
Israel
Israel
Works in field
Israel
30 years of experience+satisfied clients
Native in: French 
, Hebrew
Works in: English to Hebrew, Hebrew to English, French to Hebrew, and 8 more.
Related KudoZ points
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27
Battle of the Elleporus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stilaro
In 389 BC, the Battle of the Elleporus was alongside the river.
In 389 BC, the Battle of the Elleporus was alongside the river.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Jim Tucker (X)
: or "Elleporos" for the real Hellenists. // Ah yes that would be "grico", which is a highly corrupted form of Modern, not Ancient, Greek. But only about 50 people under 35 speak it today.
2 hrs
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Thanks. Some people in the villages of ancient Magna Graecia still speak some kind of old Greek.
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| agree |
Simo Blom
1 day 8 hrs
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Thanks a lot!!
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Discussion