Nov 26, 2013 10:45
10 yrs ago
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German term

mahnen – gedenken – erinnern

German to English Social Sciences History
Title of short blurb about untoward goings-on at a German university during the NS-Zeit.
I'm having trouble differentiating between the three here. Is there any way I squeeze three words in here?
So far "Remember and honor" "Lest we forget"??
TIA for your help

Discussion

srangela Nov 28, 2013:
Alison McG, your suggestion "responsibility, reflection, remembrance" should be entered as an answer - it's good. And your link to the previous discussion is very helpful!
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/history/4113200-...
srangela Nov 28, 2013:
It seems out of place to use Kipling for something this sensitive. Moreover, the German title is not poetic. It is more of a slogan, so a poetic reference is not equivalent. If a title is created rather than translating the three words, at least it should relate directly to the NS-Zeit. "Never Again" is connected to holocaust memorials, for example.
Horst Huber (X) Nov 26, 2013:
It should more precisely be "gemahnen". In that sense, "Mahnmal" replicates "monumentum". Lewis's dictionary gives "remembrancer", and also "memorial".
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 26, 2013:
I would be careful adding to what is elf-explanatory, although I have seen "Lest we ever forget"
Clive Phillips Nov 26, 2013:
Emphasising the admonishment 'Lest we dare to forget' or 'We forget this at our peril'.
Helen Shiner Nov 26, 2013:
The intent of the GER is to warn, admonish. And to say that we who follow will and should not forget. Without knowing the exact content of the article, it is hard to say whether there is any commemoration of victims. Lest we forget covers both eventualities without stressing either. Opting for something along the lines of 'in remembrance' loses the warning/admonishing aspect.
Yorkshireman Nov 26, 2013:
A couple of ideas A few more ideas to kick around.

In remembrance
Raising a voice for the victims
Voices from the past
In memoriam
Bringing light to an era of darkness

Marina Stubinski Nov 26, 2013:
Title whatever you go with, since it's a title I think it needs to catch the reader's eye and as such a little more flexibility in translation is acceptable IMHO. In other words, would you rather read an article entitled Lest We Forget or a string of three words that do not instantly evoke the sense of the article? Just a thought
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 26, 2013:
Lest we Forget “Lest We Forget” – What does it all mean?

http://www.lestweforgetswmi.org/
Lest We Forget - three words renown across most countries to show our remembrance of those who have fought, and those who have died fighting for freedom. It means that we will never forget.
More commonly known by its hundreds of organizations, poems and mottos, 'Lest we forget' is from Rudyard Kipling.....
Helen Shiner Nov 26, 2013:
Established phrase I am in favour of using an established phrase for this to echo the established phraseology of the GER. Difficult to convey the intended gravitas otherwise, though no doubt not impossible. 'Lest we forget' is on many war memorials. Whilst Kipling was a product of his time and his work may sound colonialist now, that does not, in my view, hold true for the phrase itself.
Yorkshireman Nov 26, 2013:
"Lest we forget" - a little background information Rudyard Kipling wrote it in his poem "Recessional" in 1897.

It became particularly popular after the Great War and became closely linked to "Remembrance Day" throughout the British Empire and, today, in the British Commonwealth. It is also sung as a hymn in NZ and Oz at remembrance services for the ANZACS in WW I and II. It does have some negative connotations as Kipling was often accused of jingoism and glorified the "Raj" and British colonialism.
Andrea Burde (X) Nov 26, 2013:
Alison, I like your solution. It is innovative but hits the nail on the proverbial head.
Alison MacG Nov 26, 2013:
responsibility, reflection, remembrance Perhaps?
A possible option for those with reservations about the connotations of Lest we forget (see some of the contributions in this extremely interesting previous question - particulary the discussion)
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/history/4113200-...
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 26, 2013:
Lest we forget commemorates slavery, its meaning is unmistakeable - excellent translation!
Andrea Burde (X) Nov 26, 2013:
gedenken is a verb and "commemorate" might serve
Susan Welsh Nov 26, 2013:
"Lest we forget" is good.
Marina Stubinski Nov 26, 2013:
Lest We Forget sounds good to me, it encapsulates all three thoughts into one natural sounding phrase. Unless I'm mistaken we don't have an exact English translation since this phrase is used specifically in reference to that period and those problems.

Proposed translations

11 mins

reminder (warning) - memorial - remembrance

The whatever it is a sign/symbol/serves as a reminder (warning) , a memorial and remembrance
Peer comment(s):

neutral Lancashireman : "untoward goings-on at a German university during the NS-Zeit" Overdue library books?
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
5 hrs

admonish - remember - remind

These three words can all be translated remember or commemorate, but there are different nuances. Mahnen has to do with admonishing, gedenken relates to thinking of - bringing to mind - erinnern can be similar to gedenken, but also means to remind someone.
How the monuments are called gives some of the nuances:
A Mahnmal is a memorial or monument commemorating always something negative, evoking sadness, regret, etc.
Gedenktafel is a memorial plaque that - could be negative - but also could honor or commemorate positive events/heroes.
Erinnerungsausstellung - likewise could go either way - a commemorative exhibition.
Peer comment(s):

agree Horst Huber (X) : "Admonish" is certainly the idea, maybe with "commemorate" and "recollect"?
9 hrs
Thanks, I like recollect too
neutral Lancashireman : Why should the reader of this article be admonished? It is highly unlikely that they will have been alive in the 'NS-Zeit'. http://thesaurus.com/browse/admonish = berate, censure, admonish,rebuke
1 day 8 hrs
Point is meaning of "mahnen". Langenscheidt et al. give "admonish".English definitions of admonish: warning. It is negative type of reminder,ie. jemanden schriftlich mahnen = to send a reminder notice of payment due.
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9 hrs

vigilance - commemoration - remembrance

For once, this sounds better when presented as a noun phrase. See example below:

"Witnessing Genocide: Vigilance and Remembrance at Tuol Sleng and Choeung Ek"
Peer comment(s):

neutral Lancashireman : Vigilance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Wacht_am_Rhein
3 hrs
neutral Cilian O'Tuama : more bullshit, but that's okay // I receive fan mail
5 hrs
It's painfully obvious where the BS is coming from..
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+1
22 hrs

admonish - remember - commemorate

The words are simply collected from the other suggestions, but I think this puts them into order. It's like a train of thoughts:

admonish - is the warning which starts with "don't you remember when..."
remember - is not as strong as "commemorate" (IMHO) but the first step towards it
commemorate - wants to preserve the memory of something, therefore finishing the admonishment

btw Great suggestions everyone!
Peer comment(s):

agree srangela
17 hrs
Thanks, srangela
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1 day 12 hrs

reflect - remember - recall

A late suggestion, but maybe it helps! The imperative form might actually work well here.

Similar context:

“Directly connected to these ideals are the way visitors are able to reflect, remember and recall the historical significance of the Holocaust through the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.”

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/projects/holocaust/Research/Pros...
Peer comment(s):

neutral Lancashireman : "the way visitors are able to reflect ... the historical significance" There is a missing preposition here, namely 'on'. Consequently, this triplet doesn't quite work.
1 hr
reflection-remembrance-recollection
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1981 days

appeal - commemoration - recall

It is rather difficult to translate this somewhat understated commentary on Nazi terror into an English context.
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