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was not completely asymptomatic of the lack of improvement

Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

known sufferer of depression

English answer:

as known from (medical) records

Added to glossary by Yvonne Gallagher
Dec 11, 2014 12:54
9 yrs ago
4 viewers *
English term

known sufferer of depression

English Other Medical (general)
Mr X makes reference to an A&E record from July 2008 which refers to you as a “known sufferer of depression".

This person was seen at A&E so I assume the doctor did not know her. Does "known" here mean "previously diagnosed", or "as known from medical records", or "as indicated by the staff" (who may know her) - what's your feeling?
Responses
4 +4 as known from records
4 +2 known sufferer of depression
Change log

Dec 12, 2014 18:38: Yvonne Gallagher Created KOG entry

Discussion

Charles Davis Dec 12, 2014:
@Eva OK. I didn't mean to imply that your question was pointless! Of course it's always helpful to know what people mean. But in this case, unless further information is available, it's simply impossible to be sure. I'm very familiar with the problem you're describing. In the languages I know, it wouldn't arise in this particular case: in other words, it really wouldn't matter how the doctor knew it; the translation would be the same in any case. But I don't know any Polish, so I don't know what your options are. If there's no satisfactory way of saying just what the ST says, fair enough. My point was simply that saying anything more specific than "it is known" runs the risk of falsifying the original and claiming that this doctor said something he/she didn't in fact say. My position is still exactly the same as B D Finch's: the statement is probably based on records but there can be no certainty about this.
Ewa Dabrowska (asker) Dec 12, 2014:
Charles As a matter of fact knowing what someone means helps enormously in translation; as a translator yourself I am sure you have come across situations when something sounds ambiguous but is stylistically correct in one language but the same ambiguity is difficult to reflect in another language without sounding artificial or stilted; I could not really say in Polish "known" in this context so I just wanted to check with native speakers whether I could possibly interpret it as "as per records" or something to this effect; sorry if you think my question is pointless.
B D Finch Dec 11, 2014:
How does one know? Many years ago, working as a local authority housing officer, I often knew sensitive information, including medical information, about tenants on a need to know basis and without necessarily seeing any medical records. Some of that information was generally known in the department. Some of it was on our files, if there was a good reason for it to be there (other departments that didn't have the right to such information were not permitted to access our files).

I suspect that in a busy A&E department, people similarly share information, say things to each other like "Oh no, X is in here again they have ... " and that somebody filling a form in in a hurry, before rushing off to deal with something else, may well fail to check the medical records and fill in something on the basis of what is generally "known" in the unit. If this happens, there is a risk that they will have got it wrong. Therefore, it could be dangerous for a translator to add a source of information if it is not mentioned in the source text.
Charles Davis Dec 11, 2014:
@Eva What you are really asking is how the doctor knows (or claims to know) that the patient is suffering from depression, and we can't possibly tell for sure. You might say that a doctor would not make such a statement on the basis of anything other than medical records, but we can't be certain about that. Indeed, you could argue that if the doctor wrote this on the basis of medical records, it would have been more natural just to say "sufferer from depression"; "known" could be taken to imply that it is common knowledge. The point is that this we just can't tell; even very high probability is not certainty.

What I'm wondering is why you want to know how it is known. I presume you have to translate this into Polish. Is it really not possible to do so without stating or implying the source of the knowledge? In principle, the translation should not add information that is not present in the source text. If you produce a Polish version that says this patient's medical records show that he/she suffers from depression, and this is not in fact the case (which it might not be, or least the doctor might not know that it is), this could matter.

Responses

+4
5 mins
Selected

as known from records

she has complained/got medication or been admitted because of this condition in the past

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Note added at 6 mins (2014-12-11 13:01:09 GMT)
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Of course "as known from records ALSO includes "previously diagnosed"

it would NOT be about personal comments by the staff

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-12-11 14:07:19 GMT)
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the fact there is an A&E record means this was already noted on the record back in 2008. Why? well we don't know, it could have been for a related problem (seld-harm/attempted suicide) or something else entirely but somone saw fit to include this info on her notes.

as for "known sufferer OF depression" ; yes it can be FROM but "Of" is used quite commonly, especially informally.

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-12-11 14:08:57 GMT)
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and yes, it is also possible a member of staff might recognise her from a previous occasion but would point the doctor to the notes in the record if they are a professional

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Note added at 1 day5 hrs (2014-12-12 18:37:27 GMT) Post-grading
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Glad to have helped

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Note added at 1 day5 hrs (2014-12-12 18:42:08 GMT) Post-grading
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and your question "what's your feeling?" was not pointless at all and the "A&E record from July 2008" is there after all ...
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M
2 mins
Thanks Tony!
agree Lirka : definitely, previously diagnosed
1 hr
Many thanks:-)
agree Tina Vonhof (X)
1 hr
Many thanks:-)
agree Edith Kelly
2 hrs
Many thanks:-)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks Gallagy"
+2
47 mins

known sufferer of depression

Unless you have some reliable evidence about how they knew, it is better to avoid changing or elaborating as any guess may be wrong.

They might know from other medical records and that is certainly the most likely explanation, but it is also possible that a member of staff knows/recognises the patient.

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Note added at 48 mins (2014-12-11 13:42:37 GMT)
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Actually it should be known sufferer from depression.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Lirka : This is strictly a matter of written records! It's not about a third-party history by people who may know her...
40 mins
It would be absolutely wrong to make that assumption. You cannot assume the medical staff acted according to the rules and elaborate on the source text when translating.
agree Charles Davis : I agree that this is the only safe answer
50 mins
Thanks Charles
agree Cilian O'Tuama : gets my fussy vote
11 hrs
Something went wrong...
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