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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

wrestled down

French translation:

fait descendre manu militari

Added to glossary by Cassandra Delacote
Mar 24, 2016 13:28
8 yrs ago
English term

wrestled down

English to French Other Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc. Police procedures
The context is the establishment of rules of procedure for police agents when dealing with a criminal (Human rights issues)


Here is the sentence: watch a Youtube clip of man being tasered, wrestled down from roof, dies.

"tasered" by the way is to be shot with a taser (pistolet à impulsions électriques) which is not supposed to kill you but to paralyse the nervous system, so as to immobilise the person.

I would be very grateful for your suggested translations, of this term and even the sentence! (though that might be asking a bit much
Proposed translations (French)
3 +3 fait descendre manu militari
3 +1 Immobilisée/maîtrisée
4 -1 paralysé par un taser il chute du'un toît
2 maîtriser avec force
2 -1 neutralisé puis tombé du toit

Discussion

Tony M Mar 24, 2016:
@ Abel Yes, but as I keep on saying, Asker's parsinb is incorrect, it is NOT 'wrestled down' but simply 'wrestled' — and where did this happen? On the way 'down from the roof'!
'Wrestled down' as you would seek to interpret it would mean that they had wrestled him to the ground; of course, then, to get him downstairs, they'd have to phsyically pick him up and bodily carry him.

What it clearly means here is that they took him forcibly downstairs, but he struggled all the way, turning it into a kind of 'wrestling match'.
HERBET Abel Mar 24, 2016:
La bonne expression qui correspondrait en Français pour "wrestled down" serait "mis à bas" (du toit ou sur le toit )
Peut-être que tout cela s'est passé sur le toit seulement mais il a été térassé et il est mort
B D Finch Mar 24, 2016:
Cause of death? He might have died from a heart attack, broken neck, strangulation or suffocation as a result of the wrestling down from the roof having been done with excessive force. Nothing in the text we've been given says that he fell.
Tony M Mar 24, 2016:
@ Abel Sadly, the EN cannot have that meaning! If it says "there is a struggle and he falls off the roof" — yes! But 'wrestle' implies that the police officer(s) grappled with him in order to / during the process of getting him down from the roof — presumably, via the stairs.

I think you'll find the whole crux of this training is to try and define what was the cause of death? Falling off the roof would have left little doubt...
HERBET Abel Mar 24, 2016:
@Tony: Je le lis comme ça

a man being tasered, is wrestled down from roof & dies

Cad : il tombe du toît et meurt
Chakib Roula Mar 24, 2016:
@Asker,
Please have a look at Tony's explanatory "agree" over my suggestion.
Chakib Roula Mar 24, 2016:
Yes, roof and dies are really pitfall.
Cassandra Delacote (asker) Mar 24, 2016:
Thank you for your very prompt answer, but I don't think it can work in my sentence, which says "wrestled down FROM THE ROOF"

Proposed translations

+3
23 mins
Selected

fait descendre manu militari

www.rue89lyon.fr/.../action-anti-roms-pres-de-lyon-le-fn-traite-lactivism...27 oct. 2015 - Les militants identitaires sur le toit d'un bâtiment de l'Etat à ... des renforts de police qui devaient les faire descendre manu militari du toit.

https://books.google.fr/books?isbn=2825116912
Michaël Perruchoud - 2002
Il grimpa sur le toit du collège à l'heure de la récré, et révolté, survolté, ... de haute tenue avant qu'on vînt le faire descendre manu militari en le menaçant cette ...

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Note added at 35 mins (2016-03-24 14:03:20 GMT)
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Being "wrestled down from the roof" means that force was used not just to get him off his feet and onto the ground or floor ("wrestled down" -> "fait trainer au sol, manu militari"), but down to the ground from the roof. So, the fact this is from the roof affects the choice of verb in French.
Note from asker:
Voilà une belle réponse!
yes, that is how I understood it too!
Peer comment(s):
agree Didier Fourcot : forcé à descendre du toit
20 mins
Merci Didier
agree GILLES MEUNIER
25 mins
Merci Gilou
agree Tony M
1 hr
Thanks Tony
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much for this excellent answer!"
+1
7 mins

Immobilisée/maîtrisée

Guess
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : 'maîtrisé' is better I think; the tazer is supposed to have 'immobilized' him, and the use of the verb 'wrestled' suggests he was still struggling.
10 mins
Dear Tony, thank you but the rest of the sentence is a big trouble to me.What do you think?
Something went wrong...
-1
13 mins

neutralisé puis tombé du toit

Example sentence:

Sur ces images amateur, on peut voir le suspect neutralisé au sol, pieds et mains liés, par des militaires américains.

Action de prendre la jambe de l'adversaire et d'être neutralisé au sol en retour.

Reference:

http://www.leprogres.fr/jura/2015/10/03/un-homme-se-tue-en-tombant-du-toit

Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : Not 'tombé', there is nothing in the source text to suggest he FELL from the roof!
3 mins
You are totally right. I misread. I hope the term "neutralisé" is valid, though...
neutral Chakib Roula : I agree with Tony.
8 mins
We would have to watch the video to know exactly what happened.
Something went wrong...
10 mins
English term (edited): wrestle

maîtriser avec force

Really and truly, it isn't a verb 'to wrestle down', but simply the action of wrestling, with the adverbial phrase 'down from the roof'.

I've just asked my b/f, a security agent, and he couldn't come up with a better term than this.

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Note added at 16 minutes (2016-03-24 13:44:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Perhaps better:

Il a été maîtrisé avec force et descendu du toit

or

En lui descendant du toit, on lui a maîtrisé avec force

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 minutes (2016-03-24 13:47:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Well, 'wrestling' in FR is 'lutte' or 'catch', but I don't see how you can work either of those in ;-)

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Note added at 20 minutes (2016-03-24 13:48:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

'débattre', perhaps?

Or change the phrasing so you can use something with 'lutter'...
Note from asker:
Yes, but I still sit with the problem in my sentence. Il a été maîtrisé et contraint de descendre du toit par la force? very long paraphrase....
Peer comment(s):
neutral B D Finch : I'm not sure whether "to wrestle down" qualifies as a phrasal verb, but I think it might.
43 mins
Thanks, B! I don't think so here, since you can't 'wrestle down' someone without then saying 'from the roof' — to me, the preposition is 'down from'; however, you could wrestle someone down to the floor, for example — there I'd agree
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs

paralysé par un taser il chute du'un toît

suggéré
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : Nothing in the sopurce text says he fell; however, the use of 'wrestling' means he was accomanied by the police officer(s) during the descent.
12 mins
Something went wrong...
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