Feb 9, 2017 15:17
7 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term

so

Non-PRO German to English Social Sciences Psychology Guide to Enlightenment
Honored Colleagues!
This is both a general and specific query, as it comes up again and again, as does my grappling with the term. This is a classic example from my current project:

In der Kindheit wurde unser Denk- und Gefühlssystem **so** gestaltet, dass wir ihm seitdem hundertprozentig glauben.

My current rendition:
During childhood, our thought and emotional system was shaped in such way(,) that we have relied on it one hundred percent/had complete faith in it ever since.

I am only interested in English translations, so please refrain from endless German references :-). I'm open to discussion, though.

Thank you!
Change log

Feb 9, 2017 17:58: Murad AWAD changed "Field" from "Other" to "Social Sciences"

Feb 10, 2017 00:13: Cilian O'Tuama changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (3): Edith Kelly, philgoddard, Cilian O'Tuama

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Discussion

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Feb 10, 2017:
Passive voice yes, a nice turn around in some cases. And the joke is just as funny as it is true!
Björn Vrooman Feb 10, 2017:
@Ramey PS
Another option, of course, would be to switch from passive to active voice (again, reworking the whole thing).

If I may use your example, something like:
It is during childhood that we develop a [...] system [on] which we ...

Or add a subject in EN (quite a common occurence):
Our childhood experiences have helped shape a [...] system that...will haunt us for the rest of our lives (joke).

Best wishes
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Feb 10, 2017:
@Björn Thanks for the input. I have worked with all the varieties given in a myriad of contexts - this one, by the way, wasn't possible to print here - and still have the feeling I've missed something. Possibly Dickens or Thackeray, or even Dostoevsky translations, nagging at the back of my mind.
Björn Vrooman Feb 10, 2017:
@Ramey Since you've asked for an "an unusual slant" and said "it comes up again and again," just my opinion:

Half the time, you can safely omit it and rework the sentence or change the grammatical structure (agree with Harris here, by the way / @Harris Not sure what Elli thinks...but in my experience, American English is more tolerant of noun phrases than British English; marketing documents by US software companies are studded with manageability, flexibility, capabilities, etc.).

In another context, "so gestaltet, dass es einfach zu handhaben ist" -> "designed for ease of use."

Another option is to use an infinitive:
"Lautstärke so herunterregeln, dass sie zum ... passt"
-> Lower the volume to match the...

I think Germans are much more likely to use "so" and a relative clause than their ENS counterparts. Replacing every "so" with "(in) such (a way)" will make some excerpts sound pretty clunky.

And as you've said many times before: Context is important. Since we don't have any, really, it's hard to say what works and what doesn't.
Eleanore Strauss Feb 9, 2017:
my 2 cents after a loooong day In childhood, our system of thought and emotion was shaped in a way that has allowed (enabled) us to have complete faith in it ever since.... or .... to rely on it entirely.
phillee Feb 9, 2017:
May I also suggest "relied upon it completely ever since"
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Feb 9, 2017:
Hi Harris Of course -ly is not mandatory (fastly?). Sometimes thusly is an excellent choice. See the example sentences here -
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/thusly
Harris Morgan Feb 9, 2017:
thusly Of course, but unless I'm misunderstanding you, an adverb doesn't always have to be translated with a word that ends in -ly. My suggestions are all adverbial phrases, as dictionaries will attest.

I would also avoid "thusly", in all honesty. It was seemingly coined as a joke and is considered incorrect by stylists: http://web.archive.org/web/20080209014857/http://www.bartleb...
Michael Martin, MA Feb 9, 2017:
@ Ramey Point taken
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Feb 9, 2017:
@ Harris All examples of 'so' below are adverbs. I DO use thusly on occasion.
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Feb 9, 2017:
@Michael Now that's just silly. Suchly actually exists!
Harris Morgan Feb 9, 2017:
≠ suchly Agree "suchly" should be avoided! This way/that way/as such/thus are other options.
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Feb 9, 2017:
Edith Either I'm over-educated or just OLD.
Michael Martin, MA Feb 9, 2017:
About as often as I use 'bigly'..
Edith Kelly Feb 9, 2017:
Ramey no
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Feb 9, 2017:
Suchly does anyone use this anymore?
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Feb 9, 2017:
Hi Edith Yes, that's also an option. I don't think there's really a need to revamp the sentence. Still, there are so many other minds out there, perhaps someone has an unusual slant. Thanks for your help!
Edith Kelly Feb 9, 2017:
Ramey you're trying to find a needle in a haystack. Of course you can revamp the sentence but: this is a direct answer to a direct question. I would suggest you post your question in a forum, you might get other ideas.
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Feb 9, 2017:
@Katja I will keep it in mind, although 'faith' is also 'glauben', and often stronger than 'believe.' Thank you for your suggestion.

@Everyone
Once upon a time, I would have used 'so' or 'so that', but I have the sneaking suspicion this is antiquated. Does anyone else think SO?
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Feb 9, 2017:
SORRY! Please forgive my misprint. Of course, the text reads in such A way. Dyslexic translating has its challenges....
Edith Kelly Feb 9, 2017:
Katja I've posted my suggestion. If you like it .....
Katja Dienemann Feb 9, 2017:
Like your rendition plus "a" I would opt for "in such a way that" or EditK's shorter "such that".

If you permit a suggestion regarding "dem ... system glauben": I would try to maintain the connotation of "glauben", e.g. believe them to be true
philgoddard Feb 9, 2017:
It's "in such A way".
Edith Kelly Feb 9, 2017:
such that would suffice IMO
I would translate it just as you have.

Proposed translations

+6
14 mins
Selected

in such a way

I'm not sure why you're doubting yourself, Ramey. Apart from the fact that a word is missing from your suggestion, I would translate 'so' just the way you have!
Note from asker:
Hi Sarah! Good to see you! I don't doubt the validity of my rendition, but there must be another way to translate 'so' in this context. Look: Die Kinder waren so erzogen, dass... Bitte die Lautstärke so regeln, dass.. Die Katze nur so streicheln, dass....
Peer comment(s):

agree Ioana-Leda Costea-Nicolae
1 min
agree Katja Dienemann
9 mins
agree phillee : 100%
1 hr
agree Amruta Deolekar
1 hr
agree franglish
2 hrs
agree Eleanore Strauss : yes, definitely, from my vantage point in Berlin... hello !
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "This is, of course, the best solution, but whether it is a non-pro question is debatable. Still, I found the discussion illuminating and thank you all for your input."
+1
13 mins

The way that

One workaround could be to restructure with a noun phrase (see example sentences). It's not ideal, especially when the push is for DE>EN translators to use more verb phrases, but probably sounds more fluent than the dusty "such [that]..."
Example sentence:

The way that our [...] system was shaped has meant that we...

The structuring method of our [...] system has [resulted in/caused] us to...

Note from asker:
Thank you Harris
Peer comment(s):

agree Armorel Young : Yes, that works - another version would be "Because of the way that ...., we subsequently ...."
48 mins
Something went wrong...
+1
17 mins

such that

see discussion
Note from asker:
Thanks Edith!
Peer comment(s):

agree Katja Dienemann
5 mins
Something went wrong...
1 hr

set up in a way that..

"During childhood, our system/apparatus for thought and feeling was set up in a way that would render it 100 percent trustworthy to us going forward."

To deal with your more expanded query:

– so as to = damit
(but that’s a formal solution and is not required in the sentence above.

Die Kinder waren so erzogen, dass... The kids were educated in a way so as to instill..

Bitte die Lautstärke so regeln, dass.. Please lower the volume so as not to disturb his sleep..
Die Katze nur so streicheln, dass.... Stroke the cat this way only so as to keep it from scratching you..
Note from asker:
Thanks for the enlightening examples, Michael!
Something went wrong...
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