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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

masacres de corte racista

English translation:

race-based killings/massacres

Added to glossary by Thomas Walker
Mar 21, 2019 00:25
5 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Spanish term

masacres de corte antirracista

Spanish to English Other Government / Politics current affairs
I encountered this phrase in an opinion piece in a Cuban periodical. The piece is about gun control, contrasting New Zealand's determination to change their gun laws after the massacre at the two mosques in Christchurch, with Trump in the U.S. & Bolsonaro in Brazil working to make guns easier to get hold of in their countries.
Here's the paragraph in which the phrase is found:
"Mientras en la nación norteamericana desde hace décadas se reclaman reformas debido a la creciente violencia armada y a ***masacres de corte antirracista***, el gobierno neozelandés acordó iniciar una reforma de la ley tres días después de los atentados a dos templos islamistas de la localidad de Chirstchurch que causaron 50 muertos."
I'm having trouble making sense of this phrase; I'm especially puzzled by what "corte" means here.
All help will be greatly appreciated.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +8 race-based killings/massacres
3 +2 white supremacist massacres
3 +1 hate-related mass killings
4 racial massacres

Discussion

Thomas Walker (asker) Apr 1, 2019:
Thanks! Thanks to everyone who contributed to this lively discussion, which ended up touching on some fundamental questions in translation. It highlighted how it is often not easy to reconcile two of the main goals of a translation: 1. to convey the meaning of the ST, with nothing left out & nothing added in; & 2. to craft a translation that reads as though it had been written by a native speaker of the target language.
Sara Fairen Mar 25, 2019:
I would argue that, while “hate” is too generic (hate crimes include also those based not on race, but sexual orientation or gender identity, among others), “white supremacist” is too specific, although undoubtedly this is a key component of racism – for a race to be considered inferior, another one has to be seen as superior, more pure, etc.
Not being a native English speaker myself, I am not sure whether “racist” and “supremacist” are interchangeable in English. In Spanish, “supremacista” has only started to be widely used in the press recently – associated, yes, with American white supremacist groups and indeed the recent attacks in Christchurch, but curiously enough more often with some Catalan politicians. As a curiosity, the RAE has only recently accepted its inclusion in its dictionary.
https://www.fundeu.es/recomendacion/supremacismo-termino-val...
Anyway, I am not sure whether this discussion is not beside the point, and maybe, if the author cannot be asked, what should be done is to leave the original “anti-racist” with a lovely [sic] next to it.
Chema Nieto Castañón Mar 25, 2019:
Entiendo tu postura, Marcelo, y no insistiré más. La idea que planteo es únicamente que cabe leer la expresión original en castellano como relativa a algo más que race-based killings.
En cuanto al supremacismo tampoco insistiré más; lo único que me chirría de la respuesta de Muriel es "white". Aunque efectivamente white supremacism es la forma más común de supremacismo en Estados Unidos, la idea del original, según la leo, es más genérica. Fijaos en todo caso en las obvias equivalencias entre el concepto de supremacismo (no necesariamente white supremacism) y el de hate crimes;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacism
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime
Marcelo González Mar 24, 2019:
My comment on racism often mentioned ...in the same breath as other terms was not to say they are the same; indeed, they have different meanings, which is why the author's choice of term should be respected. As for the suggestion (not by me) of 'race-related,' I think this is slighter weaker than saying 'race-based,' which conveys a more direct connect between 'race' and killings. Again, anything that refers to hate or white supremacy would fail to respect the author's choice (IMO).
Muriel Vasconcellos Mar 24, 2019:
White supremacist terrorism Today the White House acting chief of staff called the killings in New Zealand "an act of murderous white supremacist terrorism."
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/3/17/1842884/-White-Ho...
Muriel Vasconcellos Mar 24, 2019:
Nazism and race There's an interesting article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_and_race that explains the racial hierarchy in "Mein Kampf" that led Nazis to conclude that Jews were an "inferior race." At the time, the Arab world was aligned with Germany, so they escaped any racial definition. Today's brand of hatred theorizes that Arabs are also a race to be eliminated. It's complicated because religion and race have gotten conflated. IMO, 'white supremacist' best covers the thinking behind these mass killings.
Chema Nieto Castañón Mar 24, 2019:
@Marcelo & @Muriel Concuerdo completamente en que si race/racism en inglés trasladase o incluyese la idea de religious bigotry, race-related es la opción a escoger.

En cuanto al white supremacism lo entiendo como una idea causal de hate-related crimes, no unívoca y no necesariamente implícita en el original. Entiendo no obstante tu intención de leer la expresión original como relativa al tipo de crímenes cometidos por los supremacistas blancos, y esa creo es la idea. No obstante creo más sencillo y razonable expresar esa idea como hate-related crimes (mass killings en este caso).
Marcelo González Mar 24, 2019:
@Chema - hate is too general a term Since we can't be sure the author did not mean what s/he said (without conferring with this person), I don't see how we could justify trans-editing (beyond what we've already done), as Sara has pointed out. Also, arguments that racista en español is a broad term, often associated with other related terms, could easily be countered by similar arguments in English, could they not? Concepts such as racism and religious bigotry are often mentioned in the same breath in English as well, which is another reason to stay close to a literal translation here. Also, let's not forget that religious bigotry against Muslims often (if not always) has a a certain racist element as well (particulary among the Charlottesville, skinhead types in the US).
Muriel Vasconcellos Mar 24, 2019:
@Chema I agree. That's exactly why I suggested 'white supremacist' and got told it was an over-translation. While technically the term implies that it's only about race, in reality it has become synonymous with the beliefs of Nazism. In Charlottesville, much of the white supremacist demonstration was anti-Semitic and anti-LGBT. The beliefs behind most of these mass killings are similar to those that put Hitler in power.
Chema Nieto Castañón Mar 24, 2019:
Aunque entiendo que en este caso escoger una lectura literal podría ser la opción menos inquietante para casi cualquier traductor (sí, efectivamente, el original dice explícitamente "racista"), la relación del concepto original con el ejemplo neozelandés citado a continuación parece obvia y apunta no necesariamemte o no tanto a un error como a un uso del concepto "racista" que va más allá de lo estrictamente racial -por forzado que esto suene. Así, no se trataría tanto de subsanar un (otro) error del original como de traducir el término original de la manera más fiel y ajustada.

Asumo en todo caso que la mayoría de traductores utilizaría aquí race-related y confieso que incluso a mí me da un poco de vértigo salirme del literal en este caso. Pero sinceramente sigo leyendo el original en su contexto como referencia a asesinatos producidos por la pertenencia de la víctima a determinado grupo (social, religioso, racial, étnico, ideológico, etc.) más que como alusión específica a la raza.
Thomas Walker (asker) Mar 22, 2019:
@Sara Sara put her finger on an aspect of this article, that it "Puede ser que el periodista no haya usado la palabra más adecuada o precisa en el artículo". There is another instance of this later in the piece, where he wrote: "a criticar a los legisladores republicanos por no apoyar una medida contra el fin de la violencia armada", when what he meant was clearly "a criticar a los legisladores republicanos por no apoyar una medida contra ... la violencia armada". No way to know if he wrote in a hurry & didn't proof it carefully before submitting it, or if an editor mangled it, or what.
David Ronder Mar 22, 2019:
@marcelo Ah yes. I now see I was missing something ;)
Sara Fairen Mar 22, 2019:
Hate crimes (delitos de odio) es demasiado genérico. Aunque lamentablemente es la realidad que muestran muchos ataques, incluye motivaciones (antisemitismo, homofobia, etc.) que por la razón que sea no se mencionan en este texto en particular, o al menos en el fragmento aquí analizado. Puede ser que el periodista no haya usado la palabra más adecuada o precisa en el artículo, pero puede ser también que su elección tenga un motivo que desconocemos. En este caso, la traducción ya está asumiendo que existe un error que se debe subsanar con “antirracista”, yo no iría aún más allá con los cambios. Racial/race-based es perfectamente adecuado.
Marcelo González Mar 22, 2019:
@David - Yes ...which is precisely what I said in my explanation to the suggestion I posted. Clearly, the author meant '...de corte [de tipo] racista.'
David Ronder Mar 22, 2019:
I mean *masacres*
David Ronder Mar 22, 2019:
Am I missing something or is there a mistake in the source text: surely it should be 'massacres de corte *racista*' and not *antirracista*?
Chema Nieto Castañón Mar 22, 2019:
La violencia y los crímenes por odio e intolerancia, a falta de un término específico, suelen incorporarse dentro del concepto de "racismo" en castellano, que es así entendido, y expresado, como algo no supeditado a la raza. No es una gran solución pero es un hecho.
Por poner un ejemplo, el periódico La Razón se refiere a la SPLC como organización "antirracista", término que pretende expresar la idea de lucha contra el odio y la intolerancia (literalmente hate and bigotry);
según la organización antirracista Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC)...
https://www.larazon.es/internacional/el-odio-se-aduena-de-la...
The Southern Poverty Law Center is dedicated to fighting hate and bigotry and to seeking justice for the most vulnerable members of our society.
https://www.splcenter.org/what-we-do

Si te fijas en los propios tags del artículo de La Razón encontrarás Racismo y Violencia racista, aunque el artículo versa realmente sobre odio e intolerancia.

En fin, no pretendo demostrar nada; sólo ejemplificar un uso habitual (aunque extraño) de "racismo", que podría perfectamente leerse en inglés como bigotry, y en función del caso como hate...
Robert Carter Mar 22, 2019:
@Marcelo I refer you to my first post in the discussion, about the vernacular meaning of "racismo". For me, Chema's support of that idea I think lends some more weight to the argument that "racismo" could well be referring to bigotry in a broader sense than just "racism".
Marcelo González Mar 22, 2019:
The author's intent and word choice If his or her intent was to convey something other than 'race,' where is the evidence in such a short sample of the source text? As Robert has pointed out, the author opted to convey the notion of race being a motivating factor. The author didn't choose an equivalent of 'hate' nor of 'white supremacy.' If others have said (and I agree) that 'white supremacy' is an over-translation, would a suggestion with 'hate' not be an over-translation as well?
Chema Nieto Castañón Mar 22, 2019:
Hecho ;)
Saludos, y un placer, como siempre.
Robert Carter Mar 22, 2019:
@Chema Ah, ok, no te había entendido en ese sentido. Creo que valdría la pena que lo pusieras como respuesta, sería un aporte sumamente útil. ¡Saludos!
Chema Nieto Castañón Mar 22, 2019:
@Robert Sí, la idea que intento trasladar es que hate-related mass killings sería probablemente una traducción ajustada a pesar del literal (anti)racista utilizado en el original, en tanto que se refiere, efectivamente, no tanto a la "raza" propiamente como a ataques sobre grupos distintos, por razón de raza, religión u otros. En castellano no tenemos un término genérico del tipo hate killing, y de ahí que parezca lectura ajustada al traducir al inglés, en este caso al menos.
Robert Carter Mar 21, 2019:
@Chema Totalmente de acuerdo con todo lo que dices. Yo también había pensado en que "hate-related" iría mejor en este caso que "race-related", pero el autor optó por "racista" (bueno de hecho ni siquiera eso, "antirracista").
Solo para agregar que los medios tienden a favorecer el término "mass killings" en vez de "massacres".
Chema Nieto Castañón Mar 21, 2019:
El original parece realmente querer significar race-related killings, aunque podría perfectamente leerse como hate killings, con un sentido más amplio que race-related, y que encaja perfectamente en el contexto (tal y como ya señalado por Robert). El argumento principal del artículo en todo caso tiene más que ver con las armas que con la motivación de las masacres, por lo que no parece tan relevante. No obstante, la inclusión a continuación de la masacre de los templos islamistas neocelandeses parece pedir una traducción más amplia que race-based/race-related, por lo que hate killings tal vez pueda encajar bien en este caso particular.
Robert Carter Mar 21, 2019:
@Tom I think we should also remember that "racismo" as it's used today in Spanish (at least in Mexico, I'm not sure about elsewhere) can often mean "bigotry" more broadly, i.e., someone who fat-shames or is homophobic may be called a "racista" in the vernacular.
'm not quite sure what the author is getting at here (aside from the obvious error of "anti-racism") because while some of the recent mass killings in the US have certainly been race-based, there have also been plenty of others that were motivated by other strains of bigotry or even pure mental illness.
neilmac Mar 21, 2019:
Corte simply means type or style. Think of "the cut of one's jib" in UK English and that about covers it.

Proposed translations

+8
47 mins
Selected

race-based killings/massacres

Surely the author meant "...de corte racista" not anti-racista.

de corte = de tipo/de índole

Statement From Senate Democratic Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins ...
https://www.nysenate.gov/.../statement-senate-democratic-lea...
Nov 23, 2018 - As the last survivor of the Tulsa Race Riot, Dr. Olivia Hooker was a witness to one of the worst race-based massacres in our nation's history.
NBC's Chuck Todd Dings Donald Trump On Sunday Show | The Daily ...

https://dailycaller.com/2015/.../nbcs-chuck-todd-dings-donal...
Jun 21, 2015 - “I guess in the 21st century I didn't think we were going to have race-based massacres,” Todd began in a conversation with NYT op-ed ...

Meet the Press Transcript - June 21, 2015 - NBC News
https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the.../meet-press-transcript-ju...
Jun 21, 2015 - Your reaction to all this? I mean, I guess I didn't think in the 21st century we were going to have race-based massacres. DAVID BROOKS: Yeah.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 days (2019-04-03 01:19:41 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

My pleasure, Tom. And yes, a lively (and useful) discussion, as it presented us with an opportunity to reflect on some issues worthy of special attention. Cheers from Vietnam :-)
Peer comment(s):
agree Muriel Vasconcellos
15 mins
Thanks, Muriel
agree Robert Carter : Yes, "antirracista" doesn't make any sense to me either.
1 hr
Yes, poor word choice. Thanks, Robert
agree Emiliano Pantoja
2 hrs
Thanks, Emiliano
agree Marylen
4 hrs
Thanks, Marylen
agree Marie Wilson
7 hrs
Thanks, Marie
agree neilmac
7 hrs
Many thanks, Neil
agree AllegroTrans
11 hrs
Thanks, AllegroTrans
agree Sara Fairen
1 day 10 hrs
Thanks, Sara. And I agree completely with your comments in Discussion!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, Marcelo."
+2
1 hr

white supremacist massacres

I agree with Marcelo about "corte."

In the U.S., the expression 'white supremacist massacres' is flooding the media right now. For example:

One Of New Zealand's Darkest Days: **White Supremacist Massacres** ...
https://www.spreaker.com/user/radiosputnik/one-of-new-zealan...
5 days ago

https://www.yenisafak.com/en/.../white-supremacists-are-a-gl...
2 days ago - ... of the mosque massacre in New Zealand, there are references to the perpetrators of the **white Supremacist massacres** carried out in the U.S., ...

https://theintercept.com/2018/10/31/pittsburgh-shooting-anti...
Oct 31, 2018 - After an intolerable week of **white supremacist massacres and attempted massacres**, there is no hope that the American media will stop ...

https://twitter.com/aptly_engineerd/status/11066262209411481...
6 days ago - It's hard to imagine something like this being said by an elected official following Pittsburgh or **other recent white supremacist massacres**.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2l9XHmSM3E
5 days ago - CNN writer **connects the dots between white supremacist massacres**. Daily Kos.


Peer comment(s):
agree Emiliano Pantoja
2 hrs
Thank you, Emiliano!
agree neilmac
7 hrs
Thank you, Neil!
neutral AllegroTrans : I think "white supremacist" is an over-translation, albeit it is often the motive
11 hrs
Thank you!
neutral Robert Carter : I agree with Chris. This might be topical right now, but the author hasn't singled out this group in particular, so it's an over-translation. Saludos Muriel! //Sorry, I meant that as a neutral :-)
14 hrs
Thank you, Robert!
neutral Marcelo González : I agree with Chris and Robert. (I think over-translation is present in another suggestion as well.)
1 day 3 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
1 day 1 hr

hate-related mass killings

A pesar de que la traducción literal podría favorecerse como la más segura (race-related/race-based), el original (anti)racista creo que es utilizado en un sentido amplio, no limitado a crímenes por razón de raza sino que incluye otras motivaciones, como las religiosas, étnicas o incluso por razón de sexo (homofóbicas). Tal y como sugerido por Robert Carter en Discussion, el término racista es utilizado ocasionalmente en castellano de forma extensiva para incluir lo que en inglés se leería como hate-related. Y diría, por el contexto del artículo original, que este es el caso aquí, por lo que la traducción como race-related podría resultar limitante a pesar de su literalidad.

¡Saludos!
Peer comment(s):
agree Robert Carter : I trust your judgement on this interpretation, and it certainly makes more sense in English.
24 mins
Muy amable, Robert ;)
neutral Marcelo González : Hi Chema. This would appear to be another example of an over-translation, a rendering made all the more questionable perhaps due to the availability of a literal option widely used in journalism, i.e., 'race-based killings.'
2 hrs
I agree that this option is arguable (we cannot be sure what the author meant) but it is not an over-translation; racista (violencia/crímenes racistas) is actually used to refer to violence/crimes related to hate and bigotry.
neutral AllegroTrans : Valid wording as such, but nevertheless an over-translation of the source text; it's not the translator's job to add nuances; anyway hate-related killings are not necesarily rascist in nature
7 days
Thanks Allegro. That is preciselly all I'm trying to say; that the original Spanish "racista" is not necesarily referring to just "racist in nature" crimes.
Something went wrong...
1 day 13 hrs

racial massacres

Simply because it is a far more common term,as confirmed by Google.
Something went wrong...
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