Jun 14, 2019 06:38
4 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

[...] bis in die unterste Ebene, kommen nicht mehr mit.

German to English Bus/Financial Business/Commerce (general)
Hi everyone, I'm sure this isn't the first time that an ambiguous, apparently ungrammatical sentence has furrowed a translator's brow. Read on:

"In den obersten Ebenen werden die Strukturen geschaffen, die operativen Bereiche, bis in die unterste Ebene, kommen nicht mehr mit."

It is a response to an internal survey of employees at a large group of manufacturing companies operating under a parent company which is making some changes. There is the sense that decisions being made at the top don't percolate down the the reality on the ground. But what exactly is it that doesn't come along ("kommen nicht mehr mit")? Does the writer mean operative areas ("operative bereiche") as part of management or part of the lower levels?

Any insight would be much appreciated.
Change log

Jun 17, 2019 22:45: Johanna Timm, PhD changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (3): Steffen Walter, Ramey Rieger (X), Johanna Timm, PhD

When entering new questions, KudoZ askers are given an opportunity* to classify the difficulty of their questions as 'easy' or 'pro'. If you feel a question marked 'easy' should actually be marked 'pro', and if you have earned more than 20 KudoZ points, you can click the "Vote PRO" button to recommend that change.

How to tell the difference between "easy" and "pro" questions:

An easy question is one that any bilingual person would be able to answer correctly. (Or in the case of monolingual questions, an easy question is one that any native speaker of the language would be able to answer correctly.)

A pro question is anything else... in other words, any question that requires knowledge or skills that are specialized (even slightly).

Another way to think of the difficulty levels is this: an easy question is one that deals with everyday conversation. A pro question is anything else.

When deciding between easy and pro, err on the side of pro. Most questions will be pro.

* Note: non-member askers are not given the option of entering 'pro' questions; the only way for their questions to be classified as 'pro' is for a ProZ.com member or members to re-classify it.

Proposed translations

+3
2 hrs
German term (edited): kommen nicht mehr mit
Selected

are not able to keep up

'nicht mehr mitkommen' means to not be able to keep up with something - possibly with an element of 'to not understand something'

At the top they come up with [ideas for new] structures but the operative and lower levels are not able to keep up [with the changes].
Peer comment(s):

agree Steffen Walter : ... although I'd use "operating" or "operational".
9 mins
neutral Ramey Rieger (X) : Drawing my experience in the field, it usually infers they aren't really informed, or only vaguely.
56 mins
agree Michael Martin, MA : Yes, operations departments can't keep up because they have to deall with all the forseen and unforseen practical implications
3 hrs
agree IngePreiss
1 day 4 hrs
neutral D. I. Verrelli : The "operational staff all the way down to the lowest level" — not "operative and lower levels". Perhaps "are left behind" would also work as a less-judgemental alternative to "are not able to keep up".
18 days
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Whether the employees "night mehr mitkommen" in the sense of "can't keep up" or "aren't fully informed," I think is the most suitable answer because, as Michael pointed out, maybe they can't keep up because they're bogged down with unforeseen consequences on the ground. Either way it works. Thanks and enjoy your weekend, everybody!"
1 hr

....don't come across to the lowest level

Hi Juchi,

As I understand the sentence, decisions are taken at the top level of a company however, they do not come across to the lowest level.
Something went wrong...
1 hr

haven't got a clue.

(Literal) The executive level creates the structures without ensuring they are exercised throughout the operative level to the lowest employee (man).
(Freely) Decision-makers decide how things should work, but the rest of the employees haven't got a clue.
Something went wrong...
18 days

[...] (all the way) down to the lowest level, are left behind.

Alternative translation of the indicated source term, with a somewhat different connotation.

* "haven't got a clue" reflects quite negatively on the operations staff (down to the lowest level)
* "are not able to keep up" is ambivalent, but for me reflects more negatively on the operations staff (down to the lowest level)
* "don't come across" is fairly neutral, but for me reflects more negatively on the executive staff making the decisions
* "are left behind" reflects more negatively on the executive staff making the decisions, in the sense of an obligation on managers to "bring their staff with them".

"This session will explore the ways in which you can overcome these barriers, helping you begin to formulate a plan for inclusion in your organisation and how you can bring your staff with you on this journey."
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/scotland-workplace-conference-p...

"Automation is positive, bring your staff with you, let them be advocates, let them be champions."
https://www.charteredaccountantsanz.com/about-us/ca-catalyst...

So maybe yet another alternative would be:
"[...] (all the way) down to the lowest level, are not brought along."
which likewise emphasises the responsibility of the executives that has not been met.

This latter formulation also offers the option to explicitly translate "mehr":
"[...] (all the way) down to the lowest level, are no longer brought along."
Something went wrong...
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search