bochkor (asker) Mar 1, 2011:

Thank you, Edward, for your clarification! I know, that Google is often garbage in any language, but when you have no other resource of your own to check and compare these suggested translations, then you have no choice. That's, why I used it: only to give me an idea in this maze. Some idea at least, because over time I got totally lost, as you saw it.

Now that my mind has been put to rest regarding the plural of طرز تهیه غذا, I think, I'm choosing this one, because it's the shortest and the most descriptive of what I need.

I understand, what you're saying about "Ashpazi", but that's too general for me, even if you could list a lot of dishes/recipes under it. It's like having Chemistry as a title and listing a collection of formulas under it. However, I'd like to be MORE SPECIFIC. Therefore I would rather title it as Formulas and then list the collection of formulas under it.

So I think, I'll go with طرز تهیه غذا. But I do thank you all for your input and help. It was a pleasure.

Edward Plaisance Jr Mar 1, 2011:

recipes continued طرز تهیه غذا is singular...if you google this you will see many websites on cooking but none of them use this in the plural form...it would sound strange in Persian.

Edward Plaisance Jr Mar 1, 2011:

recipes continued check this web site http://ashpazirani.wordpress.com/
At the top it says "Ashpazi" and all you see is a list of recipes. By the way, "Ashpaz" means "cook"

Edward Plaisance Jr Mar 1, 2011:

recipes, etc. Dear Bochkor,

I think you are getting too wrapped around the axle here.

There is no requirement for a plural noun in English to be plural in Persian. The grammars are quite different in many cases. In English we say "I like books" in Persian we say "I like book"...in Persian we say "informations" ...in English we say "information"

Don't rely too much on the Google back-translations...half of what you got is nonsense...produced by literal translations..."reaction order" is how Google mistranslated "instructions on how to do...."

What the guys are trying to explain is that there is no simple one-for-one translation for recipe in Persian. We have to render it by something like "instructions for cooking food" or "instructions for preparing food".

Further confusion is caused by the various meanings that "dastur" can have in English...it can mean: order, instruction, grammar, command, etc.

Rather than use these translations, I recommend using "Ashpazi" which simply means "cooking"...anyone reading this word as a label on your button would understand that the topic is going to be about "preparing food".

bochkor (asker) Mar 1, 2011:

So you may be mad at me for this, but now I like طرز تهیه غذا the best, because it says in the shortest way, what "recipe" means = food preparation way/method. That's exactly, what it means! But I'm worried about something here. Is THIS in the PLURAL form? Is طرز تهیه غذا plural? Can anybody tell me that?

bochkor (asker) Mar 1, 2011:

And when someone hears "food orders", anybody thinks of picking up the phone and calling a restaurant TO ORDER food, which will then be delivered to your home in half an hour. Because THAT'S, what it means! Order will never become instructions, sorry.

bochkor (asker) Mar 1, 2011:

What this tells me, is this: 1. You either mention food, or you mention cooking. One of them is redundant, unnecessary. This alone renders this answer wrong!
2. Reaction-order or just order is a different meaning, so it shouldn't be a part of any translation of the word "recipes".
3. Instructions yes, but how does reaction-order become instructions? Sorry, but I don't get it. If there's a word for instructions in Persian, then use that, but reaction-order has NOTHING to do with instructions, therefore reaction-order and order OUT!
4. Baking is absolutely wrong! Why? Because it's only ONE way of cooking, so it excludes all other methods, like boiling, frying, steaming, etc. So we're not talking about baking here, so baking OUT!
5. Food orders or orders of food is just plain wrong because of "orders". I believe Ahmad, that دستورات and غذایی
should be used together, but the problem is, that even when used together, it's STILL just "food orders", which is NOT "recipes"! Just because they're used together, the word "order" doesn't become suddenly "instructions", "methods" or "ways". Sorry, but it doesn't. These are totally separate, different meanings.

bochkor (asker) Mar 1, 2011:

Okay, guys, I did my homework on Google: دستورالعمل‌ های تهیه غذا ،آشپزی
Instructions for preparing food, cooking
Cooking, food-preparation-by-reaction-order

طرز تهیه غذا
Food-preparation-way

دستورالعمل/دستور پخت غذا
Instructions/recipes food
Food-baking-order/reaction-order

دستورات غذایی
food-plural-order
orders of food
food orders

Ahmad Kabiri Feb 28, 2011:

Dear Asker IN MY OPINION, what I finally can tell you is that if you need a title very clear and unambiguous, it is better to use "دستورات طبخ غذا" (as I added in my explanation) or "دستورالعمل های آشپزی" (as Reza suggested). However, I think if you use "دستورات غذایی", even if it made an ambiguity for the reader, he/she would soon find out what is meant after reading some lines of the passage.
Moreover, as I said, you can't use this phrase without "غذایی, because "دستورات" alone means something else (orders, commands, directions, formulas, etc).

bochkor (asker) Feb 28, 2011:

To all: Well, now I'm really confused. I do respect all of you, but I have no idea, what Dastoor, Dastore, Dastoorat and Dastorate Ashpazi is. Or what what Tahie, Pokht and Ghazai is supposed to mean.

I don't want redundant words, but I can't really judge, what's redundant, but I will say this: if there's an adjective required before a noun, I doubt, that adjective is really necessary to say RECIPES. So what is the meaning of that adjective? Because I don't need to say "tasty recipes", just "recipes".

I really have to have a short word/term, because I really have very limited space. It has to fit into the same button size with the same font size, like all these others here:
http://www.wildboar.net/multilingual/middleeastern/persian/p...

So how can any of you help me?

Ahmad Kabiri Feb 28, 2011:

Dear Reza When I speak about googling, it doesn't mean that GOOGLE itself is important, but it means that the native speakers of Persian have used the phrase. Anyway, my translation may be confused by the meaning "the schedule for what is good for one and what is bad, according to one's health condition". But the meaning of "recipes" can also be conveyed by the phrase.
Well, thanks for your kind explanations.

Reza Ebrahimi Feb 28, 2011:

Dear Ahmad,
I respect your feelings and sometimes I feel like this but we should be optimistic and respect other choices. Just because Google brings more instances of a choice, it doesnt mean your is the best. If you check this in Aryanpour or Babylon, none have used your choice and in Aryanpour has used Dastore KhorakPazi as the 2nd choice which is the closest to yours while like I said the main problem I see with yours is GHAZAI and not DASTOOR which is quite vague. What is added by me and other answerers is not redundant. Translation is a combination of subjective and objective points of view and we should respect others' thoughts.

Ahmad Kabiri Feb 28, 2011:

Dear Reza I beg you to google my translation and see that the ambiguity you explained cannot be seen!! Actually the other meaning you got from this translation is mostly rendered as "سفارشات غذایی" not, "دستورات غذایی". Moreover, no need to add a redundant word when the least words can convey the meaning in the best way. I really believe in frequency of use of some specific phrases, and this is not a matter of differing in one thousand results (when googling your and my translation), but it differs in more than 40 thousands results.
By the way, this is not the first time I see this from the peers here, and this is not just ME that can see it. One of my friends also believe in it.

Reza Ebrahimi Feb 28, 2011:

Dear Asker,

Both

دستورالعمل‌ های تهیه غذا
and
دستورالعمل‌ های آشپزی
Are correct. I prefer the former.

Dear Ahmad,

You can ask others why they have not given you a positive feedback here but I can say the reason I wont like your choice is not only for Dastorat but also for not including a descriptive term like Tahie or Pokht or at least saying DASTORATE ASHPAZI. your choice is not a good equivalent for such reasons and other reasons you may like to ask from other translators. Also when you use DASTOORAT, one may be confused you are talking about a "food order". I believe you are implying your answer is the BEST while the other experts does not believe in this (up until now) and even if the asker chooses yours, it wont mean yours is the BEST. We have many other closed questions in which askers has not choose the best. Do you think if Dastorat is not wrong or your choice is the best in your opinion, others should give you a plus? I think you should give others the right to have their say and if they dont agree with you, you shouldn't accuse them on reading the names.

Ahmad Kabiri Feb 28, 2011:

Dear Asker I don't think it is a compound word. It is made up of two separate words, that is "دستورات+غذایی". But still you can't use "دستورات" alone as an equivalent for "recipes". "غذایی" is an adjective. the plural sign "ات" is not wrong, and if you yourself pluralize "دستور" with "ها", you will see that its pronunciation gets a bit harder. That's why this word is mostly pluralized with this sign.
Why don't u google the Persian translation (دستورات غذایی)? Please google it to see how it is used.

bochkor (asker) Feb 28, 2011:

Attn: Ahmad Thank you for the explanation about the forms of plural! I thought, there was only "ها". But the "ات", which you're using, is in the middle of your word. Is that okay? Maybe your word is a compound word (made up of 2 words)? Is this DASTOORAT mentioned by Reza? It looks a little bit too long for that. Sorry, I'm still an amateur in all this. Thanks!

bochkor (asker) Feb 28, 2011:

Hi, Reza! Yes, you're mentioning ها for plural in your translation at the end of the word and I'm looking hard, but I just can't see it. Also, everyone, please, submit ONLY ONE ANSWER as your answer, not 2 separated by a comma or a slash! Because two answers don't help me, I still won't know, which one to pick.

Regarding whether there is or isn't a single word for recipes in Persian, obviously there is: DASTOORAT, so tell me, why think, DASTOORAT is wrong! Actually, Ahmed.K posted this same question, too, which I also wanted to ask.

ProZ may have rules, where to post what, but as far, as I'm concerned, I don't care as long, as it's on this page somewhere.

Ahmad Kabiri Feb 28, 2011:

Dear Asker,
the plural sign of Persian is, as u said, "ها" and "ان". However, we still uses one of the Arabic plural signs frequently, that is "ات". The reason is that some words would become unnatural and their pronunciation would become a little difficult if we pluralize them with Persian plural signs.

Dear Reza,
I didn't say that your answer is completely wrong, so I'm not gonna post a wrong comment. However, I expect the peers, as the experts, to help the asker choose the BEST answer which can be fitted most, according to the asker's explanation. I also didn't mean that JUST because "دستورات" has been frequently used. Well, you provide me the reasons why "دستورات" is wrong!!
Moreover, I didn't cajole the asker to choose MY answer, I just help him choose the best by reason; And it is not illegal or illogical.

Reza Ebrahimi Feb 28, 2011:

Dear Asker,
We dont have an equivalent for RECIPE which is one single word. So the plural comes at the end of the noun (first word) which in this case is "ها" in this suggested translation دستورالعمل‌ های تهیه غذا

Dear Ahmad,

if you disagree with a reply, you have the chance of putting your comments below the answer. Discussion entries shouldn't include personal judgments about other answers. Just because DASTOORAT is also being used in Farsi, you can not expect others to agree with you.

bochkor (asker) Feb 28, 2011:

Attn: Ahmad.K I checked all the answers by back-translating with Google Translate and all the other answers are simply wrong, especially the first one (a long-stretched description, not a translation), so you were right: nobody read CAREFULLY, what I needed. Your translation came out good, but I just wonder: is that the plural form? Because the Persian sign of plural is ها
, but I don't see it at the end of your word. Why not?

Ahmad Kabiri Feb 27, 2011:

I wonder whether the peers even read the question and the suggested answers or just look at the name of the answerers!! I also wonder whether they check the frequency of use of the suggested translations and then agree with it!!!

bochkor (asker) Feb 27, 2011:

To all: 1. Any explanations I need in English only, because I don't speak Persian, so I have no idea, what you're saying. I think, I specified English for explanations, when I posted this question.
2. Please, don't overlook, what I'm asking for: PLURAL and to be used as a TITLE!
3. I saw some way too long answers. Although I don't know Persian, I strongly suspect, that there is a much shorter way, than saying, for example: "the interesting journey of a creative to cook to gather, prepare and boil food". So please, keep it as short, as possible!
Thanks!