the world is too full to talk about

02:33 Feb 19, 2019 

"I've been very busy with my own work..."

Well, I've been pretty much sick since finishing another job, so my answer is a bit late, I apologize.

"I'm not going to attack you as Björn did..."

Come on, I thought safe spaces were for Twitter users, not to mention that I did clarify my statements in a subsequent post. As said, I'm a bit surprised, that's all.

"...should be followed by the plural of the verb..."
Yes, I've noticed that as well. Plus, thanks for the video! The problem is that most of the quotes online do end right after "full to talk about." I've watched the video and while the pause is not that long, it does indicate a period (or full stop) to me.

Also, I don't disagree with your conclusion. I merely wanted people not to think of this as a run-on sentence, because of what I said above.

"I don't understand why you get involved if you hate analysis of poetry?"

That is not what I said: I hated it in school. I don't have much faith in the "system" when it comes to these kinds of analyses, but that's a story for another day.

Have a good night, all of you!

12:49 Feb 7, 2019 

you're right: maybe I shouldn't have used the word "meaning"...but in the last part of my question, I asked about "it" (meaning the "world"?)..so in this sense, I was looking for the meaning linked to the grammatical structure, the meaning of "it"... Sometimes it's difficult for a non-English speaking person to make herself understood...I'm sorry I didn't frame the question more explicitly
Despite this, your answer helped me a lot!!
Thank you so much for your patience
Enjoy your afternoon!

11:58 Feb 7, 2019 

Finally @Björn

I don't understand why you get involved if you hate analysis of poetry? I, on the other hand am trained to do this in my 3 working languages as I studied literature as well as language of all three. I then trained my students but some hated poetry, indeed literature in general and some hated books and/or languages, so not always successfullly. I enjoy reading literature without doing a critical analysis but I often find myself automatically analysing something in my head. In other words, I enjoy it! BTW I also studied art history but that doesn't mean I think everything is good or is indeed Art but anyway, that's going off topic. As to whether this needs to be treated as an (American) English or Persian poem, obviously the former since we are not dealing with the original and this is quite probably not a faithful rendition.

11:45 Feb 7, 2019 

Contd. @ Haribert, @Björn

Cosmic consciousness/oneness. I'm not alone in reading it like this. Here P127
https://books.google.ie/books?id=FMYC2yk1AlkC&pg=PA127&lpg=P...
p 127 after talking about oneness/cosmic spirituality "The poet Rumi called this cosmic place of true knowledge a field"

and here is an analysis by a swami
https://swaminarayanglory.wordpress.com/2017/10/28/out-beyon...

11:41 Feb 7, 2019 

@ Haribert, @Björn
I've been very busy with my own work so didn't have time to get involved in this yesterday. Haribert, I'm not going to attack you as Björn did but I do think you need to frame your questions more carefully. You did not ask about grammar in this question but about MEANING! Anyway, to me the full stop doesn't make any big difference to the meaning (as I understand it). However, in terms of grammar, surely if it is "Language, ideas, even the phrase each other" should be followed by the plural of the verb=DON'T? BTW I'd found a video of Barks reading this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-AX6_YrsWM and he pauses briefly but then treats it rather like a run-on line. But let's deal with it as the sentence: "When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about." Here, "talk about" grammatically=talk about the world but it's too full of potential? noise? judgements? etc. to (be able to) talk about it but, since you're lying down in that field, being at one with cosmic consciousness there is no need to talk anyway. Just let it go.

16:08 Feb 6, 2019 

That would really be a challenge for a translator (but maybe for an English reader, as well!!)
ps. I wanted to say "unheimlich" not "unbehagen"...sorry, I am really too tired...
I see what you mean: there is a similar problem also in the field of psychology. for instance for the concept of "Unbehagen" by Freud. The original Italian translation has been criticized, but it has now become so "familiar" (!!) that some prefer not to change it!!
We have a huge responsibility!!

13:58 Feb 6, 2019 

When I was studying sociology, I read that this or that word had been wrongly translated into English from, say, German. However, papers based on the re-interpretation became quite popular, so the question arose whether the word could retain its original meaning or whether the re-interpretation had already pervaded so many aspects of the field overseas that you'd have to abandon that quest. In essence, you might find that two authors from different corners of the world seemingly write about the same issue, but actually they don't.

This situation may be similar. Do you interpret the poem based on your limited understanding of Persian literature (mine isn't any better, just saying!) or do you separate it from its origins and look at it in the context of American poetry written in the 1980s and 1990s?

Third, grammar rules are there to be broken. If you can't handle this (haha), don't try reading the following poem:
https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/anyone-lived-pretty-how-...

Best wishes

13:30 Feb 6, 2019 

For the record, I used to write poems, but I hated analyzing them in school. At one point, I also got dragged through every art museum there was. Sometimes, I was able to keep up, sometimes I wasn't.

What I've learned from all of this is that you can certainly overanalyze things and it won't do you any good. The second point is you can slap the art label on everything you want. Just take a look at this:
https://www.apnews.com/96975eb8af6b4fc0903053be362d8e3a

Try finding the meaning in this. One possible approach I can suggest is that you "average" all those opinions you got from my dear colleagues and see if you can find some smallest common denominator and watch for implicit bias on your part (everyone has that). It's difficult to be sure.

Second, as Yvonne had pointed out earlier (if I may quote from the second link): "Barks is going well beyond trancreation and is essentially doing a new version of the poem..."

If that one is also by Barks, then you're most likely going to end up playing the Telephone Game here.

[...]

13:03 Feb 6, 2019 

thank you for your kind reply and contribution...actually, my question was a "simpler" one: it is about "grammar"... maybe I wasn't clear enough... My problem is that I've found translations, not official ones though, that seemed to misunderstand the grammatical structure...
The world is too full to talk about: I think it means "literally" and in extremely simple terms: you can't talk about the world because it is too full.... Interpretations about the real meaning can be many, and that's also the beauty of poems, I think. But, when I was looking for an "official" translation (I'm really not good with poems!), I found actual mistakes, or at least so it seemed to me... That's why I posted the question...because I wasn't sure that I've understood it correctly...from a grammatical point of view...

12:41 Feb 6, 2019 

...I do. That wasn't the point. We've had several discussions prior to this one and my understanding had been that you were one of those contemplating the meaning of a word before posting here. That was until I noticed that you didn't seem to have taken a look at the source material describing the Wheel of Awareness before asking, which I found curious, honestly. Even after the question was closed, it still did not contain any explanation of what the wheel is for and what the spokes represent. Then, I see this here.

Thus, I'm not looking for a fight; rather, color me surprised.

In any case, we've had questions about Rumi before. First, some poems aren't even by him (see d-box at https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english/poetry-literature/6598591... ) and second, the translation is pretty far removed from the original. See d-box at https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english/poetry-literature/6597614...

Moreover, I agree with Lisa and Phil; you can't really explain this. There is too much room for interpretation. This is true in any language and will get worse with each translation.

Best wishes

12:21 Feb 6, 2019 

actually, I have to translate only one sentence of this poem , the one I asked, and to give some context I tried to look for the whole poem, but I didn't notice there were no punctuation...
This morning I wasn't at work, but I did want to say here in the Discussion, that the sentence was actually "the world is too full to talk about"...
Do you ever make mistakes, Bjorn? If so, you're really a lucky guy!!

06:23 Feb 6, 2019 

I used to think you were very thorough and only asked the community when there was something a bit off about a sentence. I already didn't understand what happened at... https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english/psychology/6608444-a-new-...

...because I can get you interviews(!) with the author in question and they will show you "a new sense of vitality" is just not right.

And what we have here is a poem that has people confused because the punctuation seems to be wrong. A properly punctuated version:

Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field. I’ll meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about.
Ideas, language, even the phrase “each other”
doesn’t make any sense.
https://www.elephantjournal.com/2016/12/the-rumi-poem-we-sho...

I say "properly" because other links will confirm it's not a run-on sentence.

The people who answer your questions aren't supposed to spend their time looking this up. You quoted from a Wiki page, where everyone can write what they want. You can even search GoogleBooks--all authors quote the line the same way.

Best

22:30 Feb 5, 2019 

I take this meaning from the Key words here: OUT BEYOND=away from/removed from; the SOUL (not person) lying down; and "even EACH OTHER doesn't make any sense" i.e. no person/personality/duality but rather oneness with the world/universe (a world full of potential) and every other being. There are quite a few Rumi quotes about this oneness with the universe: "Do not feel lonely, the entire universe is inside you"//"Everything in the universe is within you. Ask all from yourself"//"Shine like the whole universe is yours" etc. etc.

20:19 Feb 5, 2019 

@ Phil .
No, I didn't miss it. This is not particularly difficult to understand.
"The world (too full)" is the subject of that run-on
"to talk about language" . Otherwise it's not a full sentence.
"When the soul lies down in that grass"=getting away from the mundane "ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing" and getting in touch with spirituality instead.
Surprised you haven't done any critical analyses of poetry. Not a question of "explaining" but of trying to understand the intent of the poet.

20:05 Feb 5, 2019 

I don't understand all the answers, but all seem to be overlooking the run-on sentence - it's "to talk about language". Other than that, I'm wary of "explaining" poetry.