مشت با درفش زدن

English translation: doing sth in vain

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Persian (Farsi) term or phrase:مشت با درفش زدن
English translation:doing sth in vain
Entered by: SeiTT

07:31 Jun 29, 2010
Persian (Farsi) to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Idioms / Maxims / Sayings / Idiomatic Expressions
Persian (Farsi) term or phrase: مشت با درفش زدن
Greetings,

I gather that this is an idiomatic expression.

Please could you translate it, and give me examples of the kind of situation in which one might use it?

All the best, and many thanks,

Simon
SeiTT
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:22
doing sth in vain
Explanation:
It is an idiom meaning doing sth in vain

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Note added at 35 mins (2010-06-29 08:06:07 GMT)
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Dehkhoda defines this idiom as follows:
کنايه از امر دشوار مثل درآويختن ضعيف با قوي
http://www.mibosearch.com/word.aspx?wName=مشت
(English translation: It is an idiom indicating something very difficult or impossible such as the fight between an a very weak person and a very strong one)
Awl is the symbol of strength and fist is the symbol of weakness as compared to awl. However strong your fist is, you can not hit it on an awl!

This idiom is also used to define the relationship (or better to say the "animosity") between two opposite things.

Similar Persian expressions which indicate such a relationship are as follows:

سنگ و سبو
آب و آتش
پشه و باد
آتش و پنبه
مشت و سندان

Selected response from:

Ali Beikian
Iran
Local time: 07:52
Grading comment
many thanks excellent
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +2doing sth in vain
Ali Beikian
5punching the awl (trying to do something impossible)
Mahmoud Akbari
5Beat the Air
Behnam Paran


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
punching the awl (trying to do something impossible)


Explanation:
مشت با درفش زدن can be literally translated as punching the awl (trying to do something impossible).

درفش means awl. you can see the picture here:
http://www.google.com.my/imglanding?q=درفش&imgurl=http://www...

مشت با درفش زدن means trying to do something impossible.
reference:
http://www.loghatnaameh.com/dehkhodaworddetail-535a8b1c64114...

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Note added at 10 mins (2010-06-29 07:41:17 GMT)
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Made a mistake ;-)

What I explained above is for مشت با درفش برآمدن

مشت بر درفش زدن means trying to do something irrational.
http://www.loghatnaameh.com/dehkhodaworddetail-535a8b1c64114...

Mahmoud Akbari
Canada
Local time: 00:22
Native speaker of: Native in Persian (Farsi)Persian (Farsi)
PRO pts in category: 8
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
doing sth in vain


Explanation:
It is an idiom meaning doing sth in vain

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 35 mins (2010-06-29 08:06:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Dehkhoda defines this idiom as follows:
کنايه از امر دشوار مثل درآويختن ضعيف با قوي
http://www.mibosearch.com/word.aspx?wName=مشت
(English translation: It is an idiom indicating something very difficult or impossible such as the fight between an a very weak person and a very strong one)
Awl is the symbol of strength and fist is the symbol of weakness as compared to awl. However strong your fist is, you can not hit it on an awl!

This idiom is also used to define the relationship (or better to say the "animosity") between two opposite things.

Similar Persian expressions which indicate such a relationship are as follows:

سنگ و سبو
آب و آتش
پشه و باد
آتش و پنبه
مشت و سندان



Ali Beikian
Iran
Local time: 07:52
Native speaker of: Native in Persian (Farsi)Persian (Farsi)
PRO pts in category: 24
Grading comment
many thanks excellent

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Farokh Bastan
3 hrs
  -> Thank you very much, Sir!

agree  Reza Mohammadnia
5 hrs
  -> Thank you very much, Sir!
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
مشت به درفش/ سندان زدن
Beat the Air


Explanation:
I think the best equivalent for this idiomatic expression is “beating the air”. Here are two examples from “J. Galsworthy” which show the kind of situation in which one might use "مشت به درفش/ سندان زدن":

-Bastaple: These men labour harder than other men – result nil.
This is literally beating the air.

-“Aren’t we beating the air Blythe? Is it any good telling a man who’s lost a lung, that what he wants is a new one?”


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Note added at 4 hrs (2010-06-29 11:52:53 GMT)
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Below are some Persian sentences which show a similar kind of situation. Note that use of "سندان" is much more common than "درفش".

روزی از مدرس پرسیدند: شما که چنین تنها شده اید و همواره زیرنظرید، با چه دل و جراتی با این شدت با رضاخان مخالفت می کنیدو مشت به سندان می کوبید؟
http://www.hawzah.net/hawzah/Magazines/MagArt.aspx?id=38755

هنوز نفهميدهايد كه مقابله با اين ملت مشت به سندان كوبيدن است؟
http://www.ical.ir/index.php?option=com_mmx&task=vdore2&majl...

شما که این گونه تنها شده اید و دائم تحت نظر هستید، با چه دل و نیرویی به این شدّت با رضاخان مخالفت می کنید و مشت به سندان می کوبید؟
http://www.hawzah.net/Hawzah/Magazines/MagArt.aspx?LanguageI...

Behnam Paran
Local time: 07:52
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in Persian (Farsi)Persian (Farsi)
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