Nov 20, 2010 08:20
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term
Germany
enthusiast
Native in: English (Variant: British) 
Works in: German to English, English to German, English, and 1 more.
Stadtschultheiß
German to English
Art/Literary
History
historical term as used in 18th century
My text is a chronicle of Goethe's family and will be displayed on a large board in the GH in Frankfurt. GE and EN versions will be adjacent. Here are a couple of entries:
" 1731
Catharina Elisabeth Textor wird als älteste Tochter von Johann Wolfgang Textor (1693–1771) (...) geboren. J. W. Textor, promovierter Jurist und Kaiserlicher Rat, entstammt einer angesehenen alten Juristenfamilie (...), (...)
1747
J. W. Textor wird Stadtschultheiß und damit zum ranghöchsten Beamten der Reichsstadt Frankfurt."
I have found out roughly what a Stadtschultheiß is, but my problem is how to render it in one or two words without being either historically inaccurate (i.e. not simply "mayor") nor too intricate and verbose (see my source).
I imagine the "Zielgruppe" for this board (which could be up for quite some time - I must get it right!) will be composed of a) keen tourists who have English as a second language and b) absolute Goethe experts who may even be NS of English. Here is a source:
http://www.worldstatesmen.org/German_States2.html
Here it says re Frankfurt:
Note: Before 1806 the highest authorities were (1) the Stadtschultheiss (a fossil of the royal supervision of the city), senior member of the Rat (Council); (2) the senior mayor (Älterer Bürgermeister), elected annually, who presides in the Rat.
" 1731
Catharina Elisabeth Textor wird als älteste Tochter von Johann Wolfgang Textor (1693–1771) (...) geboren. J. W. Textor, promovierter Jurist und Kaiserlicher Rat, entstammt einer angesehenen alten Juristenfamilie (...), (...)
1747
J. W. Textor wird Stadtschultheiß und damit zum ranghöchsten Beamten der Reichsstadt Frankfurt."
I have found out roughly what a Stadtschultheiß is, but my problem is how to render it in one or two words without being either historically inaccurate (i.e. not simply "mayor") nor too intricate and verbose (see my source).
I imagine the "Zielgruppe" for this board (which could be up for quite some time - I must get it right!) will be composed of a) keen tourists who have English as a second language and b) absolute Goethe experts who may even be NS of English. Here is a source:
http://www.worldstatesmen.org/German_States2.html
Here it says re Frankfurt:
Note: Before 1806 the highest authorities were (1) the Stadtschultheiss (a fossil of the royal supervision of the city), senior member of the Rat (Council); (2) the senior mayor (Älterer Bürgermeister), elected annually, who presides in the Rat.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | schultheiss, or chief justice |
Sarah Swift
|
| 4 +1 | (Lord-) Mayor |
Erich Friese
|
| 4 | Bailiff |
phillee
|
References
| see Sheriff |
Norbert Hermann
|
| one explanation |
writeaway
|
Proposed translations
+1
5 hrs
Selected
schultheiss, or chief justice
To get a sense of exactly what the duties of the Schultheiss in Frankfurt were I checked the German Wikipedia entry for Goethe's grandfather:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Wolfgang_Textor
and got this:
Als Stadtschultheiß hatte er das höchste und angesehenste Amt in der städtischen Justiz inne.
The biography of Goethe referenced below also says Textor was the "Schultheiss, or chief justice."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 Stunden (2010-11-20 13:29:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Of course you could use "chief justice" without the Schultheiss, but if there's space on the board I would leave it in to keep the Goethe specialists happy. The complex structure of the duties of the Schultheiss in Frankfurt - secretary on the town council, emperor's representative, judge etc - makes it fairly impossible to come up with a really satisfactory translation.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Wolfgang_Textor
and got this:
Als Stadtschultheiß hatte er das höchste und angesehenste Amt in der städtischen Justiz inne.
The biography of Goethe referenced below also says Textor was the "Schultheiss, or chief justice."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 Stunden (2010-11-20 13:29:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Of course you could use "chief justice" without the Schultheiss, but if there's space on the board I would leave it in to keep the Goethe specialists happy. The complex structure of the duties of the Schultheiss in Frankfurt - secretary on the town council, emperor's representative, judge etc - makes it fairly impossible to come up with a really satisfactory translation.
Note from asker:
| Thank you for all this research, Sarah ! and Helen, I think my client prefers all terms to be translated but I might make an exception here |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Helen Shiner
: I am also tempted to suggest that it stays in GER with such an explanation where it is possible (just in brackets if easiest.)
28 mins
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "This entry was the most helpful by a narrow margin but I am not quite sure enough, so will leave the final decision up to my client. Thank you, everybody, for the work you have put into this one!"
+1
18 mins
Erich Friese
Australia
Australia
Native in German
&
English
Works in field
Australia
Accurate, fast & never missed a deadline
Native in: German (Variant: Germany) , English (Variant: Australian)
Works in: German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
(Lord-) Mayor
Schultheiß m; -en, -en; altm. mayor
dsictionary entry Langenscheidt
dsictionary entry Langenscheidt
Note from asker:
| Thanks for this, but unfortunately Frankfurt def. had a top Mayor at this time, too, who was a different person, so I can't use this. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
BrigitteHilgner
: Das "Lord" würde ich aber auf jeden Fall weglassen.
46 mins
|
Reference comments
32 mins
Norbert Hermann
Native in German
&
English
YOUR COMPETITIVE EDGE - over 40 YEARS!
Native in: English , German
Works in: English to German, German to English, Portuguese to German, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
12
Reference:
see Sheriff
A sheriff is in principle a legal official with responsibility for a county. In practice, the specific combination of legal, political, and ceremonial duties of a sheriff varies greatly from country to country.
# Sheriffs are administrative legal officials (similar to bailiffs) in Ireland, Australia, and Canada.
# Sheriffs are judges in Scotland.
# Sheriff is a ceremonial position in England, Wales, and India.
In medieval Germany, the Schultheiß (Middle High German schultheize, from Old High German sculdheizo; Latinised as scultetus or sculteus) (in Switzerland: Schultheiss; also: Schulthies, Schulte or Schulze) was the head of a municipality (akin to today's office of mayor), a Vogt or an executive official of the ruler.
As official (villicus) it was his duty to order his assigned village or county (villicatio) to pay the taxes and perform the services due to the ruler. The name originates from this function: Schuld 'debt' +heißen 'to order'.
Der Schultheiß oder Schuldheiß (von althochdeutsch: sculdheizo = "Leistung Befehlender", latinisiert (mlat.): scultetus oder sculteus) bezeichnete einen in vielen westgermanischen Rechten auftretenden Beamten, „der Schuld heischt“, das heißt der im Auftrag eines Herren (Landesherrn, Stadtherrn, Grundherrn) die Mitglieder einer Gemeinde zur Leistung ihrer Schuldigkeit anzuhalten hat, also Abgaben einzieht oder für die Einhaltung anderer Verpflichtungen Sorge zu tragen hat.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 36 mins (2010-11-20 08:57:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Unterschultheiß -
deputy mayor/sheriff
Quellen Als Schultheiß bzw. Schulte oder Schulze bezeichnete man früher (bis 1832) den Gemeindevorsteher (Dorfschulze) (heute die Funktion des Bürgermeisters), den Vogt oder den Vollstreckungsbeamten des Landesherren, in der Regel des Grafen.
Die Entsprechung des Schultheißen im Englischen ist der Sheriff; in England ein Verwalter, in den USA ein (Hilfs-) Polizist auf dem Lande.
http://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idThread=292...
# Sheriffs are administrative legal officials (similar to bailiffs) in Ireland, Australia, and Canada.
# Sheriffs are judges in Scotland.
# Sheriff is a ceremonial position in England, Wales, and India.
In medieval Germany, the Schultheiß (Middle High German schultheize, from Old High German sculdheizo; Latinised as scultetus or sculteus) (in Switzerland: Schultheiss; also: Schulthies, Schulte or Schulze) was the head of a municipality (akin to today's office of mayor), a Vogt or an executive official of the ruler.
As official (villicus) it was his duty to order his assigned village or county (villicatio) to pay the taxes and perform the services due to the ruler. The name originates from this function: Schuld 'debt' +heißen 'to order'.
Der Schultheiß oder Schuldheiß (von althochdeutsch: sculdheizo = "Leistung Befehlender", latinisiert (mlat.): scultetus oder sculteus) bezeichnete einen in vielen westgermanischen Rechten auftretenden Beamten, „der Schuld heischt“, das heißt der im Auftrag eines Herren (Landesherrn, Stadtherrn, Grundherrn) die Mitglieder einer Gemeinde zur Leistung ihrer Schuldigkeit anzuhalten hat, also Abgaben einzieht oder für die Einhaltung anderer Verpflichtungen Sorge zu tragen hat.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 36 mins (2010-11-20 08:57:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Unterschultheiß -
deputy mayor/sheriff
Quellen Als Schultheiß bzw. Schulte oder Schulze bezeichnete man früher (bis 1832) den Gemeindevorsteher (Dorfschulze) (heute die Funktion des Bürgermeisters), den Vogt oder den Vollstreckungsbeamten des Landesherren, in der Regel des Grafen.
Die Entsprechung des Schultheißen im Englischen ist der Sheriff; in England ein Verwalter, in den USA ein (Hilfs-) Polizist auf dem Lande.
http://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idThread=292...
Reference:
Note from asker:
| Thank you for this information, Hermann. Would you enter "Sheriff", then ? |
42 mins
Reference:
one explanation
Schultheiß
Der Schultheiß oder Schuldheiß (von althochdeutsch: sculdheizo = "Leistung Befehlender", latinisiert (mlat.): scultetus oder sculteus) bezeichnete einen in vielen westgermanischen Rechten auftretenden Beamten, „der Schuld heischt“, das heißt der im Auftrag eines Herren (Landesherrn, Stadtherrn, Grundherrn) die Mitglieder einer Gemeinde zur Leistung ihrer Schuldigkeit anzuhalten hat, also Abgaben einzieht oder für die Einhaltung anderer Verpflichtungen Sorge zu tragen hat. Sprachliche Varianten des Schultheißes sind Schulte, Schultes oder Schulze. Früher wurde zwischen dem Stadtschulzen und dem Dorfschulzen unterschieden. In der städtischen Gerichts- und Gemeindeverfassung war er ein vom städtischen Rat oder vom Landesherren Beauftragter zur Ausübung der Verwaltungshoheit und Rechtspflege.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schultheiß
In medieval Germany, the Schultheiß (Middle High German schultheize, from Old High German sculdheizo; Latinised as scultetus or sculteus) (in Switzerland: Schultheiss; also: Schulthies, Schulte or Schulze) was the head of a municipality (akin to today's office of mayor), a Vogt or an executive official of the ruler.
As official (villicus) it was his duty to order his assigned village or county (villicatio) to pay the taxes and perform the services due to the ruler. The name originates from this function: Schuld 'debt' +heißen 'to order'.
Later, the title was also used for the head of a town (Stadtschultheiß) or village (Schulze).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schultheiß
Der Schultheiß oder Schuldheiß (von althochdeutsch: sculdheizo = "Leistung Befehlender", latinisiert (mlat.): scultetus oder sculteus) bezeichnete einen in vielen westgermanischen Rechten auftretenden Beamten, „der Schuld heischt“, das heißt der im Auftrag eines Herren (Landesherrn, Stadtherrn, Grundherrn) die Mitglieder einer Gemeinde zur Leistung ihrer Schuldigkeit anzuhalten hat, also Abgaben einzieht oder für die Einhaltung anderer Verpflichtungen Sorge zu tragen hat. Sprachliche Varianten des Schultheißes sind Schulte, Schultes oder Schulze. Früher wurde zwischen dem Stadtschulzen und dem Dorfschulzen unterschieden. In der städtischen Gerichts- und Gemeindeverfassung war er ein vom städtischen Rat oder vom Landesherren Beauftragter zur Ausübung der Verwaltungshoheit und Rechtspflege.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schultheiß
In medieval Germany, the Schultheiß (Middle High German schultheize, from Old High German sculdheizo; Latinised as scultetus or sculteus) (in Switzerland: Schultheiss; also: Schulthies, Schulte or Schulze) was the head of a municipality (akin to today's office of mayor), a Vogt or an executive official of the ruler.
As official (villicus) it was his duty to order his assigned village or county (villicatio) to pay the taxes and perform the services due to the ruler. The name originates from this function: Schuld 'debt' +heißen 'to order'.
Later, the title was also used for the head of a town (Stadtschultheiß) or village (Schulze).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schultheiß
Note from asker:
| Thank you for this information, writeaway - do you have a fabvoutite term I shoud use? hazmat, please enter yours so that I can see what others think. |
| Yes, hazmat in some ways the WWW maskes things easier for us. However, I have been warned not to trust every reference to be found there - and I still have the problem of selecting the term most suitable for my readers |
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Ingeborg Gowans (X)
: excellent research, even if you didn't have to go to the library. Very good background info incl. ethymological changes of the word. Spot on!
4 hrs
|
Discussion
According to this information sherrifs had a judicial role:
In England, Wales and Northern Ireland the high sheriff is theoretically the Sovereign's judicial representative in the county,[citation needed] while the Lord Lieutenant is the Sovereign's personal representative. (The post should not be confused with that of sheriff in Scotland, who is a judge sitting in a sheriff court.)
Prospective Answers : perhaps you could choose one of these terms and enter it or at least use the Diss. box to say which you would use.?
Sorry, please forgive this entirely frivolous comment on a Saturday morning.