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This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Mar 1, 2016 00:57
8 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Spanish term

apenas si estuvo poblado

Spanish to English Other Geography Population
I'm trying to figure out if this means it was only sparsely populated, or not populated at all. In other words, what does the "apenas" attach to, and what does "si" mean?

A algunos les llama la atención que la oferta gastronómica regional —la comida yucateca, pues— no prime más en Cancún. Pues bien, cabe recordar que el paradisíaco lugar hasta hace muy poco **apenas si estuvo poblado**, de modo que no hubo una comunidad de yucatecos que desarrollara su propia versión de gastronomía costeña.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +8 was barely (even) populated at all
5 was barely, if at all, populated
3 +1 sparsely populated
4 hardly inhabited
Change log

Mar 1, 2016 01:06: Gilmar Fernandes changed "Language pair" from "Portuguese to English" to "Spanish to English"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Phoenix III

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Discussion

Muriel Vasconcellos (asker) Mar 6, 2016:
Thanks, everyone! Thank you for confirming my interpretation of the Spanish. I appreciate that immensely, but for my translation I chose 'only thinly settled at best'.
Muriel Vasconcellos (asker) Mar 2, 2016:
Interesting exchange I, too, wondered whether it was "si" or "sí". I thought this was an interesting question and an interesting discussion - don't know why someone wanted to make it non-PRO.
Marcelo González Mar 2, 2016:
Well, when it comes to usage... ...in some twenty countries del mundo hispano, it can be rather challenging, even for those who review the DRAE, to keep their fingers on the pulse of something as dynamic as the Spanish language, hence my comment about sociolinguists. Your comment that at one time this may have been the meaning is worth underscoring. It's worth mentioning as well that, at the very least, the DRAE entry, which may not be the final word on this (How often is it for KudoZ questions?), confirms that the phrase is in fact *apenas si* and is NOT what some may have thought, i.e., *apenas sí*. How this relates to usage across different "speech communities" however is the question. To me, resolving this would require not only prescriptive data (from dictionaries and grammars), but descriptive data as well. As for what might be taught in "Castilian grammar classes" (presumably at the K-12 level in a variety of relevant countries), I really couldn't say, but if English grammar classes in America might be any indication, not many lessons would be dedicated to such specific questions of phraseology. It's an area that may not receive much explicit instruction. Really nice exchange of ideas, Robert! Cheers :-)
Robert Carter Mar 2, 2016:
Obviously I'm not saying that this usage is the only one that could exist, and The idea of it simply being colloquial seems a non-starter, given the DRAE entry. However, I think the DRAE reference does point to a certain usage that might be generally accepted in academia (and possibly even taught in Castilian grammar classes), where instead of being viewed as a component of conditionality, it simply marks a difference in adverbial usage, much like the accent in "aún".
Marcelo González Mar 2, 2016:
First, I'm not so sure... ...there isn't some variation at times with respect to the subjunctive. Second, nor am I totally convinced that a dictionary (even as "comprehensive" as el DRAE) can always be the final arbiter when it comes to questions of usage (which may be more the "thing" of sociolinguists). Third, I'm not so sure it's just colloquial; in fact, the seemingly academic nature of the text may suggest otherwise, which, of course, does not preclude its being used colloquially elsewhere, i.e., in contexts where less semantic precision (or lexical density) might actually be expected. Interesting question. :-)
Robert Carter Mar 2, 2016:
Look what the DRAE says... A friend just passed me the link, it hadn't occurred to me to look it up there!

apenas si
1. loc. adv. apenas (‖ casi no). U. para evitar la ambigüedad con otros usos del adverbio. Apenas si sale de casa.
http://dle.rae.es/?id=38BNs6H

I think that solves the mystery of the mysterious "si". :-)
Robert Carter Mar 2, 2016:
@Marcelo The only problem with your point is that, from what I've been told, this is a colloquial locution which would really be out of place in an academic context.
In addition, wouldn't "estuvo" tend to be subjunctive or conditional for that ellipsis theory to work?
Marcelo González Mar 2, 2016:
Yes, and it would also... ...be consistent with highly nuanced academic writing.
Robert Carter Mar 2, 2016:
@Marcelo That's an interesting point you made about ellipsis. It hadn't occurred to me that that could be the original meaning.
Marcelo González Mar 1, 2016:
hasta hace muy poco apenas... ...si [es que] estuvo poblado. An example of ellipsis perhaps? It would also be consistent with the unaccented si for if.

Proposed translations

+8
40 mins

was barely (even) populated at all

Yes, I agree with Andy, though I think I'd phrase it differently:

"You have to remember though, this Mexican paradise was barely even populated at all until fairly recently, so..." I suppose you could leave out "even".

For reference, see:
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/spanish-english/...
Peer comment(s):
agree Andy Watkinson : Yep. "Barely even" is better.
23 mins
Thanks, Andy, very kind.
agree Patricia Fierro, M. Sc.
24 mins
Thanks, Patricia.
agree jmf
25 mins
Thanks, Jmf.
agree Verginia Ophof
1 hr
Thanks, Verginia.
agree Charles Davis
2 hrs
Thanks, Charles.
agree franglish
7 hrs
Thank you.
agree James A. Walsh
10 hrs
Thanks, James.
agree Robert Forstag : I think that this usage of "si" is peculiar to peninsular Spanish, and that the sentence would have the same meaning without it. // Interesting. Thanks for the info. I've only seen it in material from Spain.
10 hrs
Thanks, Robert. It's standard here in Mexico and you often hear it with the sí before apenas too.
Something went wrong...
+1
13 mins

sparsely populated

You said it yourself.

"Apenas estuvo poblado" = It as sparsely.....
plus the emphatic "si" de toda la vida.

"Apenas si" is pretty common.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2016-03-01 02:19:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"It as sparsely populated" ¿?

"was" ;-))
Peer comment(s):
agree jmf : This also works well if you place it before hasta hace muy poco
52 mins
Something went wrong...
13 hrs

hardly inhabited

another option.
Something went wrong...
20 hrs

was barely, if at all, populated

or "was barely/hardly/sparsely populated, if at all"

apenas si [es que] = if [it was] at all

That is to say, according to the speaker, it may not have been "poblado" at all.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2016-03-02 02:48:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

We may not know how thoughfully the author used this construction (i.e., if he was aware of its potentially very nuanced meaning), but given the academic nature of the text, I would be willing to give him (or her) the benefit of the doubt.

This sort of reminds me of how, as a teenager, I would mouth the lyrics to a rock song (by Led Zepellin perhaps) without really knowing exactly what they were saying; nonetheless, the song remains the same (as Page and Plant might say). :-)

Finally, in less formal contexts (like teens going on a road trip), apenas si might be rendered as (an end-of-statement) "if that":

He just shouldn't be able to come with us. Between gas and food, the guy's chipped in barely ten bucks, if that.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2016-03-02 09:00:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And yes, Muriel, how this question could possibly be considered non-Pro is beyond me. :-)
Something went wrong...
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