| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Number of participants in the ProZ.com Certified PRO network surpasses one thousand Thread poster: Patrick Dotterer
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Giles Watson wrote: I don't think Proz certification is intended to supplant other existing schemes. It would need to be a bit more rigorous if it had any such aspirations 
That certainly explains a few things, coming from an "insider", as it were.
Meanwhile, with private forums and a clampdown on too much freedom of expression about the system, there is now a very distinct air of "them and us" about the place.
| | | | Giles Watson 
Italy
Local time: 17:36
Italian to English
In memoriam
Charlie Bavington wrote: Giles Watson wrote: I don't think Proz certification is intended to supplant other existing schemes. It would need to be a bit more rigorous if it had any such aspirations That certainly explains a few things, coming from an "insider", as it were.
Hi Charlie,
I'm not sure that I'm very much of an insider. My observations are just that: observations.
Meanwhile, with private forums and a clampdown on too much freedom of expression about the system, there is now a very distinct air of "them and us" about the place.
That's a little unfair. Private forums have always existed on Proz and serve a useful purpose, in this case to enable people to discuss where the Certification programme should go. BTW I am reserving judgement on it for the time being. It seems to have grown rather more quickly than I expected and not all the members now flaunting a red "P" would necessarily have been at the top of my list of candidates.
ps. @ Giles: I am not a neophyte, wannabe or student but I am a pro translator who isn't applying for a P . Does that mean I am being automatically classified as just a (paying) 'other'?
Hi writeaway,
I'm not really the person to ask but AFAICS it means you are a pro translator who isn't applying for a P.
It's a little early to be drawing conclusions, though. You may change your mind and apply if the Certification programme develops into something interesting, just as I may change my mind and request removal of the P if it deteriorates or fizzles out.
Giles
| | | | | I see the programme as something to aspire to | Nov 11, 2008 |
We've all been beginners once, and I like the way ProZ.com gives newcomers a chance to find out what translation is really all about. Many of them contribute good ideas too.
But the site is also a place where outsourcers come looking for translators, and even in the 'small' languages, there are hundreds of profiles to choose from. There has to be some way of distinguishing those who can be entrusted with really specialist jobs from those who are just learning the ropes.
... See more
| | | | | On private forums | Nov 11, 2008 |
Giles Watson wrote: Charlie Bavington wrote:
Meanwhile, with private forums and a clampdown on too much freedom of expression about the system, there is now a very distinct air of "them and us" about the place.
That's a little unfair. Private forums have always existed on Proz and serve a useful purpose, in this case to enable people to discuss where the Certification programme should go.
Yeah, sure, I can see that, altho as more and more people get the 'P' it's going to get increasingly hard to find consensus.
I think the point about other private forums is that while we all know that there are such things, and we understand how useful they can be and all that, if we are not in a specific forum, it doesn't bother us unduly since we probably don't even know it exists and does not concern us.
However, this is a private forum the existence of which has been publicly announced, and the purpose of which is, at least in part, to specifically discuss those people who are excluded from it, inasmuch as discussion of the certification programme is bound, at this early stage, to involve discussion of how to certify people. It must do, because you (one) would have to discuss it somewhere and public discussion is prohibited
Hence the "them and us" notion. IMVHO.
Might also be worth pointing out that one or 2 of the one-liners in this thread have actually clarified matters (in a positive way) AFAIAC much more than some of the more detailed stuff in the other thread....
[Edited at 2008-11-11 21:01]
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| thank you and about support tickets | Nov 12, 2008 |
Dear Patrick,
Thank you, I will definitely check the new FAQs.
However with support tickets - the site team is probably too busy - you may remember that I was waiting several weeks for some response when submitting my ticket.
And it happened (probably only with me) several times in a row just recently (before, i must admit, the support tickets and emails to the site team have been answered very fast.
Things have really changed here.
Patrick Dotterer wrote: Dear Vladimir, Frankly I hardly see a point of having a network (ProZ Certified PRO) over the existing network (ProZ). Just to get a nice red letter P?
I mean if someone is working professionally for years as a translator and has his work recognized by clients and peers - he is a translator; if he also holds a relevant recognized degree and/or a certification from some recognized translators' association - he is certified.
ProZ is not a professional translators association - it is a virtual hub, a website for language lovers, then why would someone want a certification from a website...
Probably someone can explain the reasons to me. More Certified PRO network FAQs have been added to the following page, based on questions raised here and via the support system: http://www.proz.com/pro-tag/info/faq Please take a look at them, since most of them should address your comments above. However, if you have a specific question about the network you may post here or use the support request that was created when you originally applied for the Certified PRO network. You can find this support request if you do not have the link by going to the "My ProZ.com" tab, "My support tickets". Kind Regards, Patrick
| | | | | this is disturbing | Nov 12, 2008 |
That's exactly what disturbs me (professionally).
You said:
the site is also a place where outsourcers come looking for translators, and even in the 'small' languages, there are hundreds of profiles to choose from. There has to be some way of distinguishing those who can be entrusted with really specialist jobs from those who are just learning the ropes.
So now, the ProZ red sign will be telling outsourcers who is good / qualified translator and who is not. Not P... See more That's exactly what disturbs me (professionally).
You said:
the site is also a place where outsourcers come looking for translators, and even in the 'small' languages, there are hundreds of profiles to choose from. There has to be some way of distinguishing those who can be entrusted with really specialist jobs from those who are just learning the ropes.
So now, the ProZ red sign will be telling outsourcers who is good / qualified translator and who is not. Not Project History, not WWA, not resume, but just a red sign. But I believe that the tools I just mentioned are/were good enough for the outsourcers to make their choice.
You said:
There has to be some way of distinguishing those who can be entrusted with really specialist jobs from those who are just learning the ropes.
Well, this is again quite disturbing, because I believe the site as it is (being just a site, not a professional association with its board or else) the site can hardly take a responsibility "to distinguish who can be entrusted with really specialist jobs". I mean the site team are 98% IT specialists who have nothing to do with linguistics. Also the site does not carry any responsibility for, say, the jobs done badly, same as the site is not responsible, say, for non-paying outsourcers; how then the site can take the responsibility of directing outsourcers to "those who can be entrusted"? I can be mistaken but I feel that such approach may actually downgrade the value of professional education, need to work for years gaining experience and refining skills.
You wrote:
Any paying member who has a professional qualification can apply to join the PRO network: it does not cost extra.
Indeed. But how about a non-paying member with adequate professional qualifications, linguistic education, being sworn with years of experience, proven skills etc.?
Now, in order for them to prove before the "good ousourcers offering good jobs" that they "can be entrusted with really specialist jobs" they have to become paying members. So, with all their skills and background, they will be "recognized" on this site only after paying the fee? It looks strange to me.
Christine Andersen wrote: We've all been beginners once, and I like the way ProZ.com gives newcomers a chance to find out what translation is really all about. Many of them contribute good ideas too. But the site is also a place where outsourcers come looking for translators, and even in the 'small' languages, there are hundreds of profiles to choose from. There has to be some way of distinguishing those who can be entrusted with really specialist jobs from those who are just learning the ropes. If the site is to attract good outsourcers, then the search for experienced translators has to be relatively easy. Any paying member who has a professional qualification can apply to join the PRO network: it does not cost extra. So it can be a target: when Ibecome a sworn translator or full member of the relevant association for your language pair, and apply to join the PRO network and attract better jobs. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Number of participants in the ProZ.com Certified PRO network surpasses one thousand | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
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