Oct 18, 2005 17:00
18 yrs ago
English term

Jupiter Technologies' solutions

English Bus/Financial Linguistics plural possessive
Hey everybody,



one of my clients (whose real name is not Jupiter Technologies but XY Technologies - they make software) is working on a marketing text and asked me for my expertise. They actually wanted to use "Jupiter Technologies Solutions" on the first page of a company brochure (the German version, for those who speak German, is "Lösungen von Jupiter Technologies). To me, it's an obvious beginner's mistake. I told them it's a possessive that needs an apostrophe and since the proper name is a plural, the apostrophe goes after the plural s. I have the impression that I wasn't successful in making it clear to them, because to me it's so obvious. Am I wrong? They kept saying: what about "Microsoft Word"? What about little shops called "Turner Photography" or "John Meyer Honda"? That I don't know how to explain in terms of grammar, but I can only compare it to "Fiat Panda" that doesn't take an apostrophe either. Had Microsoft chosen to use the possessive, it would be "Microsoft's Word", which does sound a little odd (does it?). "Word by Microsoft" would sound better. Of course, they could also use "Solutions by Jupiter Technologies", but they seem to want to go with the above-mentioned term. I'm sure many of you guys are passionate about grammar, too. I already checked some grammar books, but I'd appreciate further feedback to show the client I'm right. Thanks a million!

Discussion

David Sirett Oct 18, 2005:
In your context, apparently the title page of a brochure, you'd see "IBM solutions" or "Microsoft solutions", not "IBM's solutions" or "Microsoft's solutions". Same for XY Technologies.
Dagmar Jenner (asker) Oct 18, 2005:
Additional information: In this context, "solutions" is not a product, it just refers to all the wonderful software they sell ;) Thanks for the valuable input!

Responses

+2
3 hrs
English term (edited): Jupiter Technologies solutions
Selected

Style answer//it depends, it depends

In Modern Technical English: Nouns are used as adjectives:
Microsoft Word...
Also, Microsoft Word is a Brand Name.
AND
With a PLURAL as in Technologies..it works the same way:
1) Tell them that you can view Jupiter Technologies as a Noun Phrase
2) Noun Phrases are used as Adjectives.
3) So in a TITLE: Jupiter Technologies Solutions is Fine.

BUT..in a an article on this company and its solutions...you would write:
Jupiter Technologies' solutions [lower case] have shown the market that etc.

So the Function of the Word Solutions MAkes A difference...

Is it part of an Advertising Slogan or PRoduct/Service Name
or
Is it used in an article about the solutions [little s]

cheers

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Note added at 3 hrs 25 mins (2005-10-18 20:25:32 GMT)
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That is an answer that takes Grammar and the place where they thing is used. So, if you are writing about the COmpany, in an Article, and you are referring to the Sloganized Product, it would be
Jupiter Technologies Solutions
If you are specifically talking about the solutions from the company, it would be Jupiter Technologies' solutions for upper end of the market...

so to summarize:
It depends on:
1) The kind of Text [sloganized product, etc
2) regular article by a journalist

F
Peer comment(s):

agree Nick Lingris : Neat explanation!
4 hrs
Thanx Nick...
neutral transparx : i may be missing something, but the use of nouns as adjectives is pervasive in English, not limited to modern technical English. the difference is the one indicated by Brie. With the apostrophe, JT is the subject of solutions. no doubt about that!
7 hrs
Technical English has a very broad meaning..Ask Nick Lingris, it's a Greek word...ahem. I was answering in context.
agree Krisztina Lelik
9 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks a lot to everbody! Too bad I can't split the points - both Jane and Dave deserve them. Thanks again!"
12 mins

Jupiter Technology Solutions

Just a thought, not an answer: If it had used "Microsoft's Word", Microsoft could not possibly have had a copyright on the word "Word". However, since it uses "Microsoft Word", the whole syntagm can be copyrighted. All English-speakers can still use the word "word" without fattening Bill Gates' wallet. (Note the apostrophe after the "s" in Gates!)

In North America, the company formerly called Radio Shack is now called "The Source, by Circuit City". It could have been called "Circuit City's The Source" but then, that would have turned into a slogan, wouldn't it?

One solution to your client's problem in this case would be to drop the plural form "Technologies" from its name and go with "Jupiter Technology Solutions". The singular blends right in.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Alexander Demyanov : It appears that the company name is "...Technologies", not "...Technology". Compare "General Motors cars" with "general motor cars"//Nothing grammatically wrong but a lot wrong in the meaning
5 mins
Well, for one thing, there would be nothing grammatically wrong with "General motor cars"! :)
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23 mins

You are right

MicroSoft Word is a product trademarked proper noun name construction, because the Word software might even be a product that was licensed from someone else and marketed with this name.
MicroSoft's solution to the need for text processing is MicroSoft Word.
The same applies to Fiat's range of cars - the Fiat Bravo and your Fiat Panda.
MacClaren's commercial car is the MacClaren F1.

Thus, Jupiter Technologies' Solutions is the grammatically correct title of the profile in which they can enthuse about Jupiter Techologies TV, for example, and any other trademarked product names they want to incorporate their company name into.

If, however, Solutions is a product in its own right that they have registered as Jupiter Technologies Solutions, then they would be right.

When all is said and done, the client will make the final decision anyway! That does not make it grammatically correct - it is just what they are prepared to pay for.

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Note added at 32 mins (2005-10-18 17:33:04 GMT)
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how about this for reference:

KPMG launches e-learning package - vnunet.com
Morris said that e-learning now represents the biggest growth area within KPMG's business solutions consultancy, which also includes enterprise resource ...
www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2116784/ kpmg-launches-learning-package?vnu_lt=vnu_art_related_articles

Awards & Accolades - DataSynapse
Includes service-enabling solutions and or proprietary distribution solutions or platforms. ... AlwaysOn and KPMG's emerging business practice, KPMG 1Start, ...
www.datasynapse.com/company/awards.html - 36k
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+9
7 mins

Jupiter Technologies solutions

It's fine without the apostrophe. In this case, "Jupiter Technologies" acts like an adjective, not a possessive. With the apostrophe is fine, too, just as "Microsoft's Word" works. It probably sounds odd simply because it is such an established term without the apostrophe.

I'd say, if your client prefers it without, let them have it that way.

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Note added at 8 mins (2005-10-18 17:08:25 GMT)
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Sorry, make that Solutions (capitalized) if it is a heading.

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Note added at 48 mins (2005-10-18 17:48:36 GMT)
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More examples (to borrow from Dave's (IMO poorly chosen references)):

KPMG Global Services
KPMG Global Industries
KPMG Global Events

http://www.kpmg.com/


United news and deals

http://www.united.com/


etc.

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Note added at 49 mins (2005-10-18 17:49:25 GMT)
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sorry again: (poorly chosen) references)
Peer comment(s):

agree Alexander Demyanov : It seems that most companies don't use any apostrophe in such contexts
8 mins
Thank you, Alexander
agree Emilie : I do understand it as a possessive - solutions of Jupiter Tecnologies - it should take the apostrophe but.. Modern English allows it without, and the client is the boss...
18 mins
Thanks, Emilie
agree David Sirett
27 mins
Thanks, David -- agree with your remark above
agree Alfa Trans (X)
1 hr
Thanks, Marju
agree Laurel Porter (X)
2 hrs
Thanks, Laurel
agree transparx : the difference is using JT as an adjective as opposed to using it as a possessive (or subject of the transitive "solutions"); but as Emilie points out, without the apostrophe it could actually be ambiguous between the two readings for many people
10 hrs
Thanks, Nino
agree Saleh Chowdhury, Ph.D.
1 day 19 hrs
Thanks, Saleh
agree Eva Olsson : acts like an adjective
2 days 1 hr
Thanks, Eva
agree Will Matter
2 days 5 hrs
Thanks, willmatter
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