Oct 10, 2007 21:34
16 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
France
savoir v connaissance
French to English
Other
Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
From a text defining the difference between technique and techonology: "Ce qui est technique, ce n’est pas le savoir ou la connaissance théorique, ce ne sont pas les propositions de la théorie pure." The difficulty here is to find two separate words for the one English word usually used for both, i.e. knowledge.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +7 | knowledge v understanding |
B D Finch
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| 4 +2 | erudition v knowledge |
Melissa McMahon
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| 4 | knowledge/knowhow |
Bourth (X)
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| 3 | Culture and knowledge |
Micaela Genchi
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Proposed translations
+7
15 mins
Selected
knowledge v understanding
Understanding being deeper and more experience-based than "mere" knowledge.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Michel A.
: imho, understanding is the translation of "compréhension" not really "connaissance"
2 mins
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This is an example of why one cannot assume a 1:1 match between words in different languages.
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| agree |
katsy
: This link explains "connaissance", and fully justifies your proposal :-)http://www.cnrtl.fr/lexicographie/connaissance
6 mins
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Thanks katsy for that amazingly useful link. It is now bookmarked and I cannot think how I failed to have known (as opposed to "understood") about it. It will greatly add to both my knowledge and my understanding of French.
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| agree |
Jennifer Levey
55 mins
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Thanks mediamatrix.
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| agree |
Mohamed Mehenoun
: for me connaissance and savoir are the same basically but I like this one...
1 hr
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Thanks Mohamed. They are really not the same. Check out katsy's link, which comprehensively explains the difference.
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| agree |
Cervin
: This is a commonly used phrase in education at least. Lots of Ghits eg http://www.lums.lancs.ac.uk/masters/MAHRMandKM/Knowledge/
1 hr
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Thanks Cervin
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| agree |
Jean-Claude Gouin
: I agree with Mohamed ... and with Michel ... It's difficult to explain my ambivalence ...
1 hr
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Thanks 1045. See katsy's useful link.
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| agree |
Assimina Vavoula
7 hrs
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Thanks Assimina.
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| agree |
Karen Stokes
7 hrs
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Thanks Karen
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| agree |
suezen
9 hrs
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Thanks suezen.
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| neutral |
Gabrielle Leyden
: I think I heard one day that "savoir" is more specific or practical knowledge - look up def especially in education
1 day 9 hrs
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I think that, in this instance, it is about the manner of acquisition of the knowledge rather than the nature of the matter being learned.
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| disagree |
siragui
: No amount of etymology can prove what the value of a word is in a specific context. "Connaissances théoriques" is emphatically not "understanding". It implies learning of a pre-established body of theory.
1 day 11 hrs
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One can learn theory like a parrot, or learn it with understanding; that is the distinction that is made by the use of the word "connaissances". That it is a pre-established body of theory does not change this. What is important is the kind of learning.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks for everyone's help! I preferred this answer since "savoir" had already been translated as "knowledge" in a quote within the text I was translating, so for the sake of consistency I stuck to knowledge/understanding, rather than erudition/knowledge, which (thanks Melissa) I found equally convincing in the context!"
19 mins
Micaela Genchi
Italy
Italy
Italy
www.micaelagenchi.com
Native in: Italian
Works in: English to Italian, French to Italian, Spanish to Italian
Culture and knowledge
...Seulement une idée
1 hr
knowledge/knowhow
But which is which?
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
B D Finch
: I think that "knowhow" is more technical. Particular commercial "knowhow" can be contractually protected, while "understanding" cannot be.
9 hrs
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+2
10 hrs
Melissa McMahon
Australia
Australia
Native in English
Specializes in field
Australia
Related KudoZ points
:
28
erudition v knowledge
This started out as just a note but has turned into a suggestion:
The note: your sentence is not actually opposing "savoir" to "connaissance", but both "le savoir ou la connaissance théorique" to "technique".
I think the terms knowledge/understanding could still work - ie "it's not knowledge or theoretical understanding, it's not the propositions of pure theory", but the conceptual distinction between savoir and connaissance doesn't come into play here - it may elsewhere in the text.
If there's a meaningful distinction to be made between "savoir" and "connaissance théorique" (rather than savoir/connaissance tout court), this could possibly be expressed as the difference between "erudition" and "theoretical knowledge"...
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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-10-11 08:09:57 GMT)
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I guess the point of the note is that I think it would be a mistake here to translate "connaissance théorique" as "theoretical know-how" or "theoretical culture", or any other word for "connaissance" that implies a major distinction from "knowledge". The fact that it's "theorique" means, to me, that its every bit as institutional, formal etc. as any "savoir".
The note: your sentence is not actually opposing "savoir" to "connaissance", but both "le savoir ou la connaissance théorique" to "technique".
I think the terms knowledge/understanding could still work - ie "it's not knowledge or theoretical understanding, it's not the propositions of pure theory", but the conceptual distinction between savoir and connaissance doesn't come into play here - it may elsewhere in the text.
If there's a meaningful distinction to be made between "savoir" and "connaissance théorique" (rather than savoir/connaissance tout court), this could possibly be expressed as the difference between "erudition" and "theoretical knowledge"...
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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-10-11 08:09:57 GMT)
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I guess the point of the note is that I think it would be a mistake here to translate "connaissance théorique" as "theoretical know-how" or "theoretical culture", or any other word for "connaissance" that implies a major distinction from "knowledge". The fact that it's "theorique" means, to me, that its every bit as institutional, formal etc. as any "savoir".
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
B D Finch
: Per your 2nd sentence: theoretical knowledge and understanding are being contrasted with "technique". Theoretical knowledge and theoretical understanding are used here as complementary, not opposed to each other.
21 mins
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I agree, I don't see any opposition here. It's not clear to me whether the "theorique" qualifies both savoir and connaissance, but either way I agree it is not a traditional savoir/connaissance opposition, but "theorie" et "technique"
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| agree |
Michel A.
: I fully agree (BTW "théorique" qualifies only "connaissance") savoir => savant => érudition
3 hrs
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That's how I read it (the qualification), yes. Thanks for unpacking "savoir" too.
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| agree |
siragui
: I wholeheartedly subscribe to your explanation, though you're charitable about accepting "understanding" in this sentence.
1 day 1 hr
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as a standalone (eg. "knowledge or understanding"), I wouldn't think it was acceptable, but attached to "theoretical" and beside "knowledge", I think it probably 'reads' as "theoretical knowledge"
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Discussion