Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

the FBI are or is?

English answer:

both are correct in BE

Added to glossary by Patsy Florit
Dec 22, 2009 20:05
14 yrs ago
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English term

the FBI are or is?

Non-PRO English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
I´d like to know if I can use The FBI are investigating or is investigating sounds better

Discussion

Sheila Wilson Dec 24, 2009:
Summary Clearly, the singular verb is much more common. However, at least in British English, is is not incorrect to refer to the FBI with a plural verb. For me personally, "FBI are" is perfectly OK with a verb like "investigating" - it's people who do the investigating, not organisations. With other verbs maybe the plural verb wouldn't work, and of course the FBI IS an American organisation.
John Detre Dec 24, 2009:
@ Sheila Thanks for the links, Sheila. I've learned something. I must say, I did not think "Shell are" was a possible construction on any continent. To my doggedly Canadian ears, it sounds simply wrong, but I guess my ears are not exactly a touchstone of grammatical correctness!

This being said, the much derided google test does suggest that, even in the UK, the preferred usage is "Shell is" by a wide margin. A search of the www.shell.co.uk site yields 134 hits for "Shell is" compared with 13 hits for "Shell are," and in only 4 of those 13 is Shell the singular subject of the sentence (the other 9 are for phrases such as "The world's largest credit card issuer and Shell are offering UK consumers a world class credit card...").

I agree that there are some cases in which singular proper nouns are routinely treated as plural, such as the names of sports teams, but to extend this principle to all names of organizations and consider them all to be collective nouns gives us results that are, at best, unusual. I'm not sure what the rule is here. Maybe someone has written a PhD thesis in linguistics on the subject, but that will have to be research for another day.

Happy holidays!
Sheila Wilson Dec 23, 2009:
@ John Well, I've added a bit more in the way of links etc. There's certainly a real difference between BE and AE but it seems difficult to pin it down to rules.
British Diana Dec 23, 2009:
the Stasi was or were There are 87 000 ghits for "the Stasi were" and 188 000 ghits for "the Stasi was". Now I have experienced people being told off on KudoZ for expecting Google to be an expert on grammar, but doesn't this tell us a little about how the language is behaving at this point in time? i.e that two parallel forms are evolving?
BTW my sample sentence was perhaps not so clear-cut. Perhaps "The Stasi /the FBI often try to use blackmail." vs "The Stasi/the FBI often tries to use blackmail."
John Detre Dec 23, 2009:
@ Sheila I'm sorry Sheila, I'm just not following. I went to Shell's homepage and the first thing it says is: "Shell is a global group of energy and petrochemicals companies." (www.shell.com) Are you saying that in BE, it would be equally correct to say ""Shell are a global group of companies"?

On its British website, Philips says: "Royal Philips Electronics of the Netherlands is a diversified Health and Well-being company..." (www.philips.co.uk/about/company) Would "Philips are a diversified company" be another possibility in the UK?

I get two ghits for "The Daily Telegraph are" and in both the name of the newspaper is not the subject of the sentence ("the editors of the Daily Telegraph are...," "the owners of the Daily Telegraph are...")

I admit I am not well versed in BE and I'm ready to be corrected. But I just can't find the constructions you suggest. Could you be a bit more specific about where to look?
Sheila Wilson Dec 23, 2009:
a) The Stasi was a repressive organisation b) They were repressive/it was repressive. In the first, you use the word organisation, which forces a singular verb. In the second, the verb depends on the pronoun, which can be replaced, in both cases, by the proper noun "the Stasi" i.e. the Stasi was/were repressive
British Diana Dec 23, 2009:
What about the Stasi? I don't know what to think here, because as a speaker of BE I would go for Sheila's answer. However, John says FBI is a proper name, not a collective noun. Like der Staatssicherheitsdienst?
What would people say (and is it comparible to the FBI)?:
-The Stasi was a repressive organisation or
-The Stasi were a repressive organisation?

Responses

+9
2 hrs
Selected

both are correct in BE

In American English, the singular would be used. In British English, either can be used. To quote from Longman English Grammar:

Some collective nouns such as audience, class, club, committee, company, ... can be used with singular or plural verbs.

... when we think of them in an impersonal fashion, i.e. as a whole group:
The present GOVERNMENT, WHICH HASN'T been in power long, ...

... when we think of them in a more personal way, i.e. as the individuals that make up the group:
The GOVERNMENT, WHO ARE looking for a quick victory, ...

End of quote

Note that you must be careful to use "who" with the plural verb as you are effectively referring to people rather than an impersonal organisation.

So: The FBI [organisation] is ...
The FBI [officers] are ...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-12-22 22:20:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A note about police - in both language variants, the correct usage is "the police ARE". The singular verb goes with "the police FORCE IS".

To quote again from the above book:
The following collective nouns must be followed by a plural verb; they do not have plural forms: cattle, the clergy, ..., the police, swine, vermin

The example given is "The police have surrounded the building"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2009-12-23 08:43:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

@ John

Towns and countries usually take a singular verb (even plural nouns such as "the Netherlands"!), although there can be exceptions, at least in BE. If Belgium refers to the football team, the Olympic team etc, then it can be plural. The Daily Telegraph can most certainly take a plural verb, as can Shell, Philips etc (check out their websites)

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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2009-12-23 21:08:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

@ John again

Clearly, "X is a company" is the only possibility, "X are a company" would sound odd to anyone, I'm sure.

However, I worked for Shell for many years and know well that the company sometimes referred to itself with a plural verb. Certainly, there are more instances of singular verb, but the plurals are there too.

Shell produce: http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviation/aeroshell/technic...

Shell anounces + Shell are : http://www.shell.co.uk/home/content/gbr/aboutshell/media_cen...

Shell have : http://www.shell.co.uk/home/content/gbr/aboutshell/careers/s...


My reason for quoting Philips was that I noticed the plural form on their site a while back - of course, I can't find it now apart from in the Eco Design part of this page, where it says "Philips are".

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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2009-12-23 21:20:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here, the BBC says (or should I say "say";-)) "the FBI are investigating": http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7978379.stm

Difficult to really tie these things down, in the absence of clear directives from grammars, which are all busy hedging their bets where British English usage is concerned.
Peer comment(s):

agree cmwilliams (X)
59 mins
Thanks
agree Francesco Badolato : A very useful "lesson".
2 hrs
Thanks
agree Kim Metzger
2 hrs
Thanks
agree Filippe Vasconcellos de Freitas Guimarães : nicely explained
3 hrs
Thanks
agree KathyT : great answer.
3 hrs
Thanks
neutral John Detre : I think FBI is a proper name, not a collective noun. If names of organizations/institutions are to be considered collective nouns because they consist of groups of individuals, then why not "New York City are," "Belgium are," "the Daily Telegraph are"?
5 hrs
My reply is above, John
neutral Peter Skipp : I'm with John here. As a BE speaker, I despair of confusion between (multiple) individuals and (singular) organisations. Also, Longman is not the definitive source on grammar; many an authortative house style would differ!
10 hrs
I don't believe that there is a "definitive" source on grammar for the English language so yes, I agree, some would differ. The point I feel should be made is that as translators we need to use a style that reflects the language of the day.
agree Christine Andersen : I would say 'the police are' because in my BE mind I see lots of indvidual policemen. But the police force IS... I waver about constabulary, and check corporate websites for corporate policy in each case - some corporate bodies prefer plural themselves.
10 hrs
Thanks very much for those comments Christine
agree kmtext : Good explanation.
12 hrs
Thanks
agree Ledja
14 hrs
Thanks
agree British Diana : It's time I came down off the fence so yes, I agree with you Sheila. The proportion of "is" to "are" voters reflects the status quo anyway!
1 day 8 hrs
Thanks. I think "are" is much more common, but I don't like to say that something is incorrect, just because it's a minority
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, this answer would be the most suitable for me. Even though the singular verb is more common, I cannot consider the plural BE wrong."
+12
3 mins

is

I would say that, the FBI being an organization, it should be "is"
HTH
Peer comment(s):

agree jccantrell : Gotta go with the one that shows up first.
1 min
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
agree Taña Dalglish : Absolutely; the entity "is"; or "the FBI field offices are manned ..". Happy holidays.
2 mins
Thanks and happy holidays to you too :-)
agree Jack Doughty : I think the same, but I'm from the UK too. Let's see what those in the USA think.
2 mins
:-) Yes. Thanks Jack and happy festivities.
agree Demi Ebrite
22 mins
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
agree JaneTranslates
28 mins
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
agree John Detre
34 mins
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
agree Peter Skipp
1 hr
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
agree Stephanie Ezrol
2 hrs
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
agree Richard McDorman : Please go with "is." It's true that British English accepts "are" but to American ears, "are" sounds odd.
5 hrs
:-) Thanks and happy festivities!
agree Filippe Vasconcellos de Freitas Guimarães : The FBI is a U.S. agency after all
5 hrs
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
agree Thayenga : Happy Holidays. :)
5 hrs
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
agree Rolf Keiser
11 hrs
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
Something went wrong...
+1
3 mins

is

it's a (one) bureau... why "are"?
Peer comment(s):

neutral stra : because we say, for example, "the police are"
14 mins
agree Peter Skipp : Absolutely: IS because the FBI is a single entity; "the police are" is a dreadful solecism
1 hr
Something went wrong...
+1
6 mins

IS

The FBI as an entity IS -- I know, it could get confusing because the police "are" (plural) but that is more generic while the FBI is one specific institution.

Examples:
"The FBI is looking into accusations that"
"The FBI is investigating allegations that ..."
"In response to Freedom of Information Act requests, the FBI released its files on ..."
Peer comment(s):

agree Peter Skipp : "the police are" is a dreadful solecism that goes unnoticed in everyday speech. Here, we get asked to "split hairs" (in the sense of providing quality opinion on matters of language), and if one splits hairs, the police IS, and so is the FBI!
1 hr
Something went wrong...
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