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Test de performance (étude)
désaltération

Glossary entry

français term or phrase:

plus l'avantage de toute nature diminue

anglais translation:

the lower its benefit-in-kind rating

Added to glossary by B D Finch
Apr 12, 2010 19:22
14 yrs ago
9 viewers *
français term

plus l'avantage de toute nature diminue

français vers anglais Affaires / Finance Entreprise / commerce tax incentives on company cars
This is a Belgian company car policy. The whole sentence is "plus la voiture est verte, plus l'avantage de toute nature diminue".

This link http://fiscus.fgov.be/INTERFAOIFFR/Vragen/person-tax/advanta...
gives an outline of what an ATN is in Belgium and it seems to be what we in the UK would call a benefit in kind.

My problem is fitting the second half of the sentence with the first, ie. if the cars become greener, why would the benefit in kind decrease?

Maybe I'm missing something simple....

Many thanks.
Proposed translations (anglais)
4 +3 the lower its benefit-in-kind rating
4 +2 the more environmentally friendly the car is, the more the benefit in kind is reduced
3 +1 the greener the car is, the more advantage of any kind is reduced
3 the less benefit-in-kind tax you pay
References
avantage de toute nature
Change log

Apr 26, 2010 09:36: B D Finch Created KOG entry

Discussion

Tony M Apr 13, 2010:
ATN I really can't understand why there is any argument over the interpretaton of the term ATN: we have the definitive answer, straight from the horse's mouth, in the reference given by asker, with confirmation from the bilingual KPMG text kindly provided by Hazel.
Tony M Apr 12, 2010:
Yes, it does make sense... ...because possession of a company car is taxed as a 'benefit in kind'; so this is a tax reduction on the basis of the car's greenness: the greener the car, the less it will be counted as a 'benefit in kind' for taxation purposes

Asker has already confirmed for us that 'avantage toute nature' means 'benefit in kind' in Belgian tax terminology.
philgoddard Apr 12, 2010:
That presumably means that their value will be affected by inflation - I don't know whether that's a good or a bad thing. I'd just go with a fairly literal translation - it might not make much sense to you or me, but that's what it says.
Angie Taylor (asker) Apr 12, 2010:
The sentence before is "Les coefficients CO2 seront adaptes au 1 janvier de chaque annee a l'indice des prix de la consommation. Ainsi, le message pour l'annee prochaine est donc le suivant : ... There's a new paragraph on l'avantage fiscal afterwards.
philgoddard Apr 12, 2010:
You're right, this doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. A bit more context might help - what comes before and after this?

Proposed translations

+3
15 heures
Selected

the lower its benefit-in-kind rating

"We would not recommend that you select a company vehicle purely on the basis of its low benefit-in-kind rating as you could soon become dissatisfied. ..."
www.fleetcentre.com/pages/Car---Van-Tax.aspx -

"BENEFIT IN KIND RATING. 14%. FUEL CONSUMPTION. CO2. BENEFIT IN KIND RATING ... BENEFIT IN KIND RATING. 14%. FUEL CONSUMPTION. CO2. BENEFIT IN KIND RATING ..."
jamiewatsondesign.com/portfolio3lexusrx450h.php

"Seat is hoping to find the Exeo has appeal for company car drivers who want a premium product with a low benefit-in-kind rating. The 143bhp version of the ..."
www.autotrader.co.uk/.../seat_exeo_st_car_review_ten_point_... -
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Good, idiomatic solution!
4 minutes
Thanks Tony
agree philgoddard
34 minutes
Thanks phil
agree John Detre
4 heures
Thanks John
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+2
6 minutes
français term (edited): plus la voiture est verte, plus l'avantage de toute nature diminue

the more environmentally friendly the car is, the more the benefit in kind is reduced

My interpretation.

plus la voiture est verte, plus l'avantage de toute nature diminue
=
the more environmentally friendly the car is, the more the benefit in kind is reduced
Peer comment(s):
neutral Rob Grayson : I'm not convinced that "avantage de toute nature" equates to benefit in kind (usually "avantage en nature")
9 minutes
Never mind...
agree Tony M : Yes, because the possession of the car is taxed as a 'benefit in kind'; so this is a tax reduction on the basis of the car's greenness
40 minutes
Many thanks Tony M.
agree John Detre : the more environmentally friendly the car is, the smaller the benefit in kind
8 heures
Many thanks John - good suggestion.
disagree mimi 254 : avantage de toute nature (benefit of any kind) is not equal to avantage en nature (benefit in kind)//Mind your language and STOP being RUDE PLEASE! You don't need to fiercely defend your suggestion. HUMILITY is one of the characteristics of a TRANSLATOR!
14 heures
It is a great shame that you disagree with the Asker's reference. // How is "It is a great shame that you disagree with the Asker's reference" being rude??? Phil Goddard makes exactly the same comment below to you. Did you also see Phil's comment?
agree philgoddard : I like John's solution - it's more concise. Mimi, I don't think we can argue with the asker's reference.
15 heures
Many thanks Phil.
Something went wrong...
+1
30 minutes

the greener the car is, the more advantage of any kind is reduced

Confusing, but I agree "toute nature" should be of any kind, not benefit in kind.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 34 mins (2010-04-12 19:57:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, my translation is garbled. It should read:

The greener the car, the less advantage of any kind (there is).
Peer comment(s):
disagree Chris Hall : "advantage of any kind" is merely a literal translation. Your two proposed translations contradict themselves greatly.
16 minutes
neutral Tony M : Doesn't seem to make any logical sense at all to me.
18 minutes
agree writeaway : congratulations. you are apparently the only person on this page who realises there is a difference between 'de nature' and 'en nature'.
3 heures
agree Rob Grayson : Whetever the asker and others might say, "avantage de toute nature" is not "benefit in kind" in Belgium or anywhere else – it's a benefit (not an advantage) of ANY kind.
11 heures
agree mimi 254 : agree with Rob
14 heures
disagree philgoddard : The asker's reference clearly shows that this is a false friend - it does mean benefit in kind.
15 heures
Something went wrong...
2 heures
français term (edited): plus l\'avantage de toute nature diminue

the less benefit-in-kind tax you pay

the greener your car, the less benefit-in-kind tax you pay (less gas, less tax!!!)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2010-04-13 09:57:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In response to Rob, I have seen the exact phrase avantage de toute nature on KPMG literature relating to Belgium.

8 Feb 2010 ... CO2 Element in Lump-Sum Valuation of Benefit-in-Kind for Employees ... en ce qui concerne les avantages de toute nature, l'AR/CIR 92, p. ...
www.us.kpmg.com/microsite/tax/ies/2010_Flash_Alerts/fa10-02...
• http://en.bab.la/dictionary/french-english/en-nature
Reference:

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2009/04/28/50435/green-company-cars-less-gas.-less-tax.html

Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : Although that certainly seems to be the idea behind it, I rather fear this would amount to over-translation.
5 minutes
disagree Rob Grayson : "Avantage de toute nature" is not the same as "avantage en nature", even in Belgium. This is a straightforward misunderstanding of what the text actually says.
9 heures
agree philgoddard
13 heures
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

15 heures
Reference:

avantage de toute nature

Here is the actual text from the reference already given by Asker, which seems to make it unequivocally clear that, despite the perhaps unfamiliar syntax, 'benefit-in-kind' is indeed specifically what it means:

Qu'est-ce qu'un avantage de toute nature ?

Un Avantage de Toute Nature (ATN) est un avantage qu'une entreprise accorde à un membre de son personnel ou à un de ses dirigeants (voiture de société, disposition d'un immeuble, prêt d'argent à un taux avantageux, etc.).

Cet ATN est considéré comme un revenu professionnel. Le travailleur qui le reçoit devra donc payer de l'impôt sur le montant correspondant à la valeur de l'ATN.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2010-04-13 10:47:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, the link I copied above doesn't seem to work, this one should be ok:

http://fiscus.fgov.be/INTERFAOIFFR/Vragen/person-tax/advanta...
Reference:

http://fiscus.fgov.be/INTERFAOIFFR/Vragen/person-tax/advanta...

Something went wrong...
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