Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Croatian term or phrase:
opća gimnazija
English translation:
general grammar school/high school
Added to glossary by
eleonora_r
Jul 10, 2010 21:47
13 yrs ago
101 viewers *
Croatian term
opća gimnazija
Croatian to English
Social Sciences
Education / Pedagogy
za razliku od matematičke, klasične i jezične
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | general-education high school |
dkalinic
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| 4 +2 | high school |
Lirka
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| 5 | Academic Secondary(Grammar School) with A Levels Sixth Form - UK |
NadiaMP (X)
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| 4 -1 | general gymnasium |
Natasa Stankovic
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Proposed translations
+2
8 hrs
Selected
general-education high school
Ako prevodite na američki engleski, ovo je uobičajeni pojam. Da se izbjegnu razlike US English vs. UK English, može se koristiti i general-education secondary school. Gymnasium ne bih upotrebljavao jer je primarno značenje te riječi "športska dvorana".
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Note added at 13 hrs (2010-07-11 10:51:32 GMT)
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Gymnasium u značenju srednja škola nije "native English". Susreće se većinom u prijevodu s njemačkih stranica na engleski. Gymnasium izvorne govornike američkog i britanskog engleskog navodi na značenje "gym" i sve u tom smislu. Uostalom, da nekome Amerikancu kažete "I'm going to general gymnasium", pogledao bi vas u čudu i vjerojatno se nasmijao.
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Note added at 17 hrs (2010-07-11 15:28:17 GMT)
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Kada prevodimo na engleski ili bilo koji drugi strani jezik, treba prevoditi u duhu jezika i imati na umu da tamo već postoje pojmovi koji se koriste za određene institucije. U Americi i Velikoj Britaniji gymnasium sigurno nije gimnazija nego samo športska dvorana. Za gimnaziju Amerikanci koriste high school, a Britanci grammar school. Nije se dobro povoditi za stranicama na internetu gdje sve vrvi kojekakvim nebuloznim prijevodima na upitan engleski.
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Note added at 17 hrs (2010-07-11 15:41:54 GMT)
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Evo definicije iz Merriam-Webster's Online:
Main Entry: gym·na·si·um
Pronunciation: \sense 1 jim-ˈnā-zē-əm, -zhəm; sense 2 usually gim-ˈnä-zē-əm\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural gym·na·si·ums or -na·sia\-ˈnā-zē-ə, -ˈnā-zhə; -ˈnä-zē-ə\
Etymology: Latin, exercise ground, school, from Greek gymnasion, from gymnazein to exercise naked, from gymnos naked — more at naked
Date: 1598
1 a : a large room used for various indoor sports (as basketball or boxing) and usually equipped with gymnastic apparatus b : a building (as on a college campus) containing space and equipment for various indoor sports activities and usually including spectator accommodations, locker and shower rooms, offices, classrooms, and a swimming pool
2 [German, from Latin, school] : a European secondary school that prepares students for the university
Moji američki kolege mi kažu da se značenje 2 može upotrebljavati samo za njemačke srednje škole takve vrste, za sve ostale koristi se high school.
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Note added at 1 day7 hrs (2010-07-12 05:10:51 GMT)
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Aha, budući da se radi o prijevodu za UK, onda svakako grammar school. Ja bih to preveo kao general grammar school.
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Note added at 13 hrs (2010-07-11 10:51:32 GMT)
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Gymnasium u značenju srednja škola nije "native English". Susreće se većinom u prijevodu s njemačkih stranica na engleski. Gymnasium izvorne govornike američkog i britanskog engleskog navodi na značenje "gym" i sve u tom smislu. Uostalom, da nekome Amerikancu kažete "I'm going to general gymnasium", pogledao bi vas u čudu i vjerojatno se nasmijao.
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Note added at 17 hrs (2010-07-11 15:28:17 GMT)
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Kada prevodimo na engleski ili bilo koji drugi strani jezik, treba prevoditi u duhu jezika i imati na umu da tamo već postoje pojmovi koji se koriste za određene institucije. U Americi i Velikoj Britaniji gymnasium sigurno nije gimnazija nego samo športska dvorana. Za gimnaziju Amerikanci koriste high school, a Britanci grammar school. Nije se dobro povoditi za stranicama na internetu gdje sve vrvi kojekakvim nebuloznim prijevodima na upitan engleski.
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Note added at 17 hrs (2010-07-11 15:41:54 GMT)
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Evo definicije iz Merriam-Webster's Online:
Main Entry: gym·na·si·um
Pronunciation: \sense 1 jim-ˈnā-zē-əm, -zhəm; sense 2 usually gim-ˈnä-zē-əm\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural gym·na·si·ums or -na·sia\-ˈnā-zē-ə, -ˈnā-zhə; -ˈnä-zē-ə\
Etymology: Latin, exercise ground, school, from Greek gymnasion, from gymnazein to exercise naked, from gymnos naked — more at naked
Date: 1598
1 a : a large room used for various indoor sports (as basketball or boxing) and usually equipped with gymnastic apparatus b : a building (as on a college campus) containing space and equipment for various indoor sports activities and usually including spectator accommodations, locker and shower rooms, offices, classrooms, and a swimming pool
2 [German, from Latin, school] : a European secondary school that prepares students for the university
Moji američki kolege mi kažu da se značenje 2 može upotrebljavati samo za njemačke srednje škole takve vrste, za sve ostale koristi se high school.
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Note added at 1 day7 hrs (2010-07-12 05:10:51 GMT)
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Aha, budući da se radi o prijevodu za UK, onda svakako grammar school. Ja bih to preveo kao general grammar school.
Note from asker:
| Budući da je prijevod za UK, mislila sam staviti grammar school, zapravo je pitanje bilo za ovo "opća", a ne za gimnazija. Nikad gimnazija ne bih prevela kao "gymnasium". |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Natasa Djurovic
: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/croatian_to_english/education_peda...
3 hrs
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Hvala, Nataša.
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| neutral |
Natasa Stankovic
: Naravno da „gymnasium“ nije, kako kažete, "native English", ali mnogi Amerikanci bi vas u čudu gledali i ako kažete „I’m from Croatia“ (ne bi znali ni šta je to Croatia, a zatim da li je u Evropi, Aziji ili…), pa mislim da vam to i nije neki argument.
6 hrs
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Kada prevodimo na engleski, ne prevodimo doslovno nego u duhu jezika i koristimo pojmove koji se koriste u ciljnoj državi. Dakle nikako gymnasium za gimnaziju u am. engleskom odn. brit. engleskom jer oni već imaju za to određene pojmove.
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| agree |
bonafide1313
: "Croatia" nije "native English" kao ni "gymnasium" u značenju gimnazije, tako da mislim da ti je argument u redu, iako je činjenica da se nešto obrazovaniji natives neće baš tako čuditi ni gimnaziji ni kroejši:))
7 hrs
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Jadranka, činjenica jest da Engleze i Amerikance gymnasium navodi na značenje "gym" i ništa drugo. To što u nekom rječniku piše da je gymnasium middle school ne drži previše vodu.
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| neutral |
Lirka
: 'general-education' sounds very odd. Either just high-school or possibly 'regular high-school'//it is obvious that it doesn't sound odd to you, but it does to me. About the hyphen, you are right. But we also do not need it for the adjective :)
9 hrs
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general-education doesn't sound odd. There are over 192.000.000 examples for it on the Net. High-school is adjective, high school noun. Every high school is regular, the emphasis is on the education it gives.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Hvala svima na prijedlozima, odlučila sam se za "general grammar school""
-1
15 mins
Natasa Stankovic
Serbia
Serbia
Serbia
IT, Medical, Marketing EN–SR Translator
Native in: Serbian 
Works in: English to Serbian, Serbian to English, English to Serbo-Croat, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
general gymnasium
- Croatia (4 years, starting at age 14/15 after 8 years in elementary school, five different educational tracks: opća gimnazija (general education), klasična gimnazija (focused on Latin and Ancient Greek), jezična gimnazija (focused on modern languages), prirodoslovna gimnazija (biology and chemistry) and prirodoslovno-matematička gimnazija (mathematics, physics and computer science), ends with Matura).
- Serbia (4 years, starting at age 14/15 after 8 years in elementary school. There are 2 types. One is general gymnasium (opšta gimnazija in Serbian) which offers broad education both in natural subjects and social studies. Other is just gymnasium in which you can choose on enrollment if you want to study science and mathematics (prirodno-matematicki smer in Serbian) or social studies (drustveni smer in Serbian).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_(school)
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Note added at 1 hr (2010-07-10 23:43:17 GMT)
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ili „general-education gymnasium”
After graduating from Realschule, good students are allowed to attend a professional Gymnasium or a general-education Gymnasium. They can also attend a Berufskolleg or do an apprenticeship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realschule
ili “gymnasium of general education”
Youth on 18/19 Additional training for special education Gymnasium of General Education in Secondary SchoolSecondary shool16/17 14/15 Basic shool10/11 Primary school6/7 Pere - School EducationThis school structure allows the same type of school choice schoolchildrens and profile in accordance with their skills and living conditions and better prepare for life.
http://indrekuleviciute.blogspot.com/2010/04/education-in-li...
- Serbia (4 years, starting at age 14/15 after 8 years in elementary school. There are 2 types. One is general gymnasium (opšta gimnazija in Serbian) which offers broad education both in natural subjects and social studies. Other is just gymnasium in which you can choose on enrollment if you want to study science and mathematics (prirodno-matematicki smer in Serbian) or social studies (drustveni smer in Serbian).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_(school)
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Note added at 1 hr (2010-07-10 23:43:17 GMT)
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ili „general-education gymnasium”
After graduating from Realschule, good students are allowed to attend a professional Gymnasium or a general-education Gymnasium. They can also attend a Berufskolleg or do an apprenticeship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realschule
ili “gymnasium of general education”
Youth on 18/19 Additional training for special education Gymnasium of General Education in Secondary SchoolSecondary shool16/17 14/15 Basic shool10/11 Primary school6/7 Pere - School EducationThis school structure allows the same type of school choice schoolchildrens and profile in accordance with their skills and living conditions and better prepare for life.
http://indrekuleviciute.blogspot.com/2010/04/education-in-li...
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
dkalinic
: To bi vrijedilo kada bi se radilo o srednjoj školi akademskog tipa. Toga u Hrvatskoj nema pa se onda ne može prevesti kao gymnasium. Taj termin je također upitan jer mu je primarno značenje "športska dvorana". Bolje je reći general-education high school.
8 hrs
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Princeton University (USA): Gymnasium, middle school (a school for students intermediate between elementary school and college; usually grades 9 to 12) http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=gymnasium
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+2
2 days 16 hrs
high school
No need for an adjective here.
I stand my ground :)
I stand my ground :)
4 days
Academic Secondary(Grammar School) with A Levels Sixth Form - UK
Buduci se radi o prijevodu za UK, ovaj prijevod je jedini najblizi onome sto je u Hrvatskoj opca gimnazija. U Americi je to High School, a u New Zealand i Australija Grammar School (premda postoje High Schools ali Grammar School odmah daje na znanje da su predmeti vise akademski (jezici, znanosti, dok u High School imate i sve druge predmete za koje u Hrv. postoje strucne, tehmnicke i druge skole. Inace, pospuno se slazem s Davorom K. i svima drugima da se gimnazija NIKAKO ne moze prevesti kao Gymnasium - to je gym gdje se radi fiskultura i jedino se tako danas razumijeva u svim zemljama engleskog govornog podruca. Gymnasium se upotrebljava u Njemackoj (kao i Realschule) i potpuno je nesuvislo koristiti njemacke paralelne izraze, pogotovo u terminologiji vezanoj za obrazovanje jer su obrazovni sistemi toliko puno razliciti.
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Note added at 4 days (2010-07-15 08:54:40 GMT)
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Mislim da je cijela ova diskusija zapravo i poucna, jer nam pokazuje kako je vrlo riskatno koristiti termine i objasnjena sa wikipedie - moramo biti svjesni da wiki stvaraju uglavnom laici (ponekad i strucnjaci) otvoreno je svakome, prema tome puno je toga sto se mora uzeti s velikom rezervom. Pogotovo ne bismo smjeli brkati termine u obrazovanju iz anglo-saxonskog i germanskog govornog podrucja. Ovaj "gymnasium" je najbolji primjer onoga sto se ne bi smjelo raditi. slazem se s vecinom toga sto su Davor i ostali povodom toga napisali, premda cak i primjer web stranice koji je Davor dao (www.worldnetweb) zapravo uopce ne izjednacuje "gymnasium" i "middle school" (ako malo polje pogledate) nego ih stavlja jedno uz drugo (jer to nikako i nigdje nije isto) - a i taj site je kao i wikipedia prilicno neobavezujuci
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Note added at 4 days (2010-07-15 08:54:40 GMT)
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Mislim da je cijela ova diskusija zapravo i poucna, jer nam pokazuje kako je vrlo riskatno koristiti termine i objasnjena sa wikipedie - moramo biti svjesni da wiki stvaraju uglavnom laici (ponekad i strucnjaci) otvoreno je svakome, prema tome puno je toga sto se mora uzeti s velikom rezervom. Pogotovo ne bismo smjeli brkati termine u obrazovanju iz anglo-saxonskog i germanskog govornog podrucja. Ovaj "gymnasium" je najbolji primjer onoga sto se ne bi smjelo raditi. slazem se s vecinom toga sto su Davor i ostali povodom toga napisali, premda cak i primjer web stranice koji je Davor dao (www.worldnetweb) zapravo uopce ne izjednacuje "gymnasium" i "middle school" (ako malo polje pogledate) nego ih stavlja jedno uz drugo (jer to nikako i nigdje nije isto) - a i taj site je kao i wikipedia prilicno neobavezujuci
Reference:
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Natasa Stankovic
: Ne treba zaboraviti da se hrvatski obrazovni sistem nije razvio autohtono, već pod direktnim uticajem zemalja germanskog govornog područja (pa samim tim i terminologija), a da nikakve veze nikada nije imao niti danas ima s anglo-saksonskim.
8 days
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to je tocno, ali to apsolutno nema veze sa prijevodom- prvo pravilo u prevodjenju je da prevodite u duhu jezika NA KOJI prevodite (target language) znaci tako da onaj koji to cita u prijevodu razumije o cemu se radi
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Discussion