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Référentiel Prescripteur
poivre des dunes

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

compte débiteur

English translation:

account overdrawn, overdrawn account

Added to glossary by DB-9
May 16, 2012 21:23
12 yrs ago
44 viewers *
French term

compte débiteur

French to English Bus/Financial Finance (general) bank statement
HI

I would like to know if anybody knows the correct English term for 'compte debiteur' in the context of a bank statement (please see below). The 150.00 has been transferred from the account owner's savings account into his current account and the entry (virement de liv) is the same on the current account as it is in the savings account.

29/12/10 OPERATION DEBIT CREDIT SOLDE
COMMISSION INTERVENTION 8.20 -88.86

01/01/11 VIREMENT DE LIV 150.00 +61.14
MME XXX
COMPTE DEBITEUR






I am not sure if it means debtor account in this context.
Proposed translations (English)
5 +3 account overdrawn, overdrawn account
4 +1 debit account
5 Account debtor
4 +1 account to be debited
5 originating account
4 Accounts Receivable
3 drawee account
Change log

May 17, 2012 00:44: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "COMPTE DEBITEUR" to "compte débiteur"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Nikki Scott-Despaigne

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Discussion

Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 17, 2012:
Important note By the way, the "libellé" of "compte débiteur" which appears on the savings account statement is to indicate the reason, the "motif", the "libellé" for the transfer to the current account. Sometimes banks will do this without asking or informing the client. It is often, though not always, written in the small print of the contract signed upon the opening of the account. It is not possible for a savings account to be overdrawn. The law does not permit it and the banking systems are set up for it to be impossible. It is simply mentionning the reason for the debit transaction transferring the funds over to the current a/c.

I would certainly avoid adding anything that is not on the face of something so important as a bank statement! ;-)

Ask your client if this is to be read as the account being "à découvert".
Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 17, 2012:
Just a note to say you have to be careful with your prepositions here. The 150€ were debited from<i/> (not credited from) the savings account and credited to the current account.


Note for the Crédit Agricole :
http://www.lorraine-enligne.credit-agricole.fr/g1/vitrine/v2...

"Compte débiteur, dépassement d’ouverture du crédit
non autorisé ou/et échéance de prêt en retard"

"COMMISSION D’INTERVENTION
Opération entraînant une irrégularité de fonctionnement
du compte et nécessitant un traitement particulier de
la banque
> Par opération rejetée ou payée 8,40 €"
DB-9 (asker) May 17, 2012:
HI

Thanks for your comment. Unfortunately, the columns didn't appear as they did when I was typing the question, so it looks messy and I don't seem to be able to edit it..If I can find out how to edit the question, I will attempt to present the columns more clearly. The current account was overdrawn by -88.6 after the commission d'intervention. After 150 was credited from the savings account, the account balance of the current account was +61.14. I think that it might be best to put something like 'current account overdrawn' since 'compte debiteur' also appears on the savings account (virement a DAV, MME XXX, compte debiteur). The bank is Credit Agricole.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 17, 2012:
The items you post are headings at the top of the statement.
A "commission d'intervention" has been levied as the bank has no doubt allowed certain transactions to go through in spite of this causing the account to go overdrawn or to exceed an authorised limit. A "commission d'intervention" will be charged for each transaction of this sort.

Looks to me as though 150 € have been transferred from the savings account to the current account, leaving the savings account with a balance of 61,14€ and the current account with a balance of 88,86€. Whether the current a/c balance stated is before or after the transfer from the savings a/c, I do not know.

As these are column headings, do you have the original presentation? As it is, iif this is the current a/c statement, I read this to indicate that the current a/ has a negative balance of 88,66€.

Which bank is this? The format may be familiar to some of us depending on the bank concerned.

It is perfectly normal that the savings account is not overdrawn. Savings accounts cannot present a negative balance.
DB-9 (asker) May 17, 2012:
Hi, thanks for all your comments. I am a bit unsure about 'account overdrawn' since this also appears on the savings account statement, which is not overdrawn!

Proposed translations

+3
2 hrs
French term (edited): COMPTE DEBITEUR
Selected

account overdrawn, overdrawn account

A "compte débiteur" is an account with a negative balance.
A "compte créditeur" is an account with a positive balance.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2012-05-16 23:55:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.banque-france.fr/ccsf/fr/infos_prat/telechar/glos...

May come in handy elsewhere in your document.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2012-05-16 23:58:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.lesclesdelabanque.com/web/Cles/Content.nsf/Lexiqu...

(See definition 2 here)


débiteur *

1*- Personne qui doit une somme d’argent. On parle également de « payeur ». 2- Position d’un compte de dépôt dont le solde est négatif, ou adjectif qualifiant des intérêts (intérêts débiteurs).


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2012-05-17 00:00:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.creditfoncier.fr/editorial/Particuliers/Vous_etes...

ébiteur (nom) Personne physique ou morale tenue de remplir une
obligation. Le plus souvent, il s’agit de payer une
somme d’argent à un créancier. Un compte de dépôt
est dit débiteur lorsque son solde est négatif
Débiteur (adjectif) Position d’un compte de dépôt dont le solde est négatif,
ou adjectif qualifiant des intérêts (intérêts débiteurs)
Découvert du compte Position d’un compte de dépôt lorsque son solde est
négatif. Cette situation peut avoir été contractualisée
(autorisation de découvert) préalablement ou non par
le banquier
Dépassement Fait d’excéder le montant d’un seuil (plafond autorisé) ;
par exemple découvert du compte ou seuil de retrait
d’espèces autorisé par carte bancaire

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2012-05-17 00:04:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Just to say that "current account" can be expressed in a number of ways in France : compte courant, compte chèque, compte de dépôt are some of the usual ways. (Note the false friend : compte de dépôt which is not the same as a deposit account in the UK meaning of the term, but a synonym for current account).

http://www.banque-france.fr/ccsf/fr/infos_prat/glossaire/glo...

Compte utilisé pour gérer quotidiennement son argent. C’est sur ce compte qu’un client dispose en général d’une carte bancaire et/ou d’un chéquier. Le compte doit être créditeur, sauf accord avec la banque.
On parle également de compte bancaire, compte chèque, compte à vue. Le terme « compte courant » est également utilisé mais de façon impropre.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2012-05-17 00:05:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Note (same source), Banque de France :
A current account is also a "compte à vue".
A deposit account is a "compte à terme".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2012-05-17 00:20:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/débiteur

Emploi adj. Compte débiteur. Compte dont les sommes inscrites au débit sont supérieures à celles inscrites au crédit. Comment se fait-il que le compte Lambert frères soit débiteur de 7832 francs? (Pagnol, Fanny,1932, III, 1, p. 169).
− P. ext. Solde débiteur. Solde qui apparaît au débit d'un compte.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2012-05-17 10:57:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think I have now understood what is a rather banal event. The "compte débiteur" is simply a "libellé" explaining the reason on a statement for a transfer from the savings account to the current account to cover the fact that on 29 December 2010 the current account presented a negative balance of 88,86€. The bank has no doubt accepted to cover a certain transaction in spite of their being insufficient funds on the current account to cover it, as witnessed by the "commission d'intervention" of 8,20€ (now 8,40€ at the Crédit Agricole, see official rates published for that bank as in the discussion post). Where there is no agreed OD authorisation or one exceeds the OD limit, then the highly punitive commissions d'intervention are levied in order to make you react quickly. If there are funds to cover the transaction, they tend to pay for a while. After that, they tend to start rejecting standing orders which are more expensive still. If there are no funds on another account to cover the transaction, then it may well be rejected outright.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2012-05-17 10:58:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Help! "in spite of THERE being.." I thought I was incapable of making such a mistake!!! Shame on me!!!
Peer comment(s):
agree Yolanda Broad
57 mins
agree Rowena Fuller (X)
3 hrs
agree Cyril B.
3 hrs
neutral Daryo : could be also the "account being debited" which is in fact more likely when it refers to ONE TRANSACTION, instead of the balance on ONE ACCOUNT.
6 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "many thanks for all your comments"
+1
14 mins
French term (edited): COMPTE DEBITEUR

debit account

referring to the account, not the account holder, I beleive
Reference:

http://dictionnaire.tv5.org/dictionnaire/francais-anglais/debiteur

Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : But what does this mean?
32 mins
that it is withdrawn from a "checking" or "debit" account
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Although in context it is not describing the type of account, rather the state in which the account is, indeed the nature or "libellé" of the transaction made from a savings to current account to cover an overdraught.
12 hrs
agree CHAKIB ROULA (X)
15 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr
French term (edited): COMPTE DEBITEUR

Account debtor

--
Something went wrong...
1 hr
French term (edited): COMPTE DEBITEUR

Accounts Receivable

This might work given the context. A bank can enter that it has received a note receivable on a statement. Also, given the rest of the context, this might work in terms of bank reconciliation.

See the link below for an expanded definition of your source term. Cut and paste here, their definitinon: Débiteurs:
Ce terme est utilisé pour ce qui est dû et exigible, c'est-à-dire les montants totaux dûs sur les marchandises vendues, les services rendus et l'argent prêté et qui doit être remboursé. Egalement appelé : Compte débiteurs.


Best,
Reference:

http://legacy.intracen.org/tfs/docs/glossary/df.htm

Something went wrong...
11 hrs

drawee account

Just because a transfer has been made from the account, it doesn't necessarily mean that the account is overdrawn.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : I understand that it can also mean this, or debtor a/c in N. America. However, in the context where a statement indicates "commission d'intervention", it reads as a "libellé" for the transfer savings > current a/c for reason of OD.
1 hr
Thanks Nikki. I see your point but I still think it could be either meaning.
Something went wrong...
+1
21 hrs

account to be debited

This is certainly one of the possible meanings in this context

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2012-05-18 09:15:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To address the point raised by Daryo: it is perfectly acceptable and normal in EN to say 'account to be debited' even if this is a statement of a transaction that has already taken place.

However, one could equally well say 'account debited' if you prefer to make it explicitly past tense.
Peer comment(s):
agree Daryo : very close, only it's already done. That's the account that _was_ debited
8 hrs
In point of fact, that doesn't change anything: we can still express it this way in EN.
Something went wrong...
1 day 6 hrs

originating account

in a description of one transaction it's the information about where the money is coming from, that's the account that was debited i.e. money taken out of it.
The account where the money is going in was credited.

Just to confuse nicely, looking at one account the balance of an account can be either in credit - the bank is holding your money and that's shown in black as a positive number (your account is in "in the black"), or the money taken out exceeds the money put in – you are holding bank’s money, the resulting balance is negative(from the bank’s point of view, of course), i.e. in debit (you have strayed “in the red”).


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day6 hrs (2012-05-18 03:35:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


compte débiteur = originating account (that's been debited)

solde débiteur = overdrawn account ("in the red")

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day7 hrs (2012-05-18 05:08:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

more precisely:

solde débiteur = negative balance of the account, the implication being it's an overdrawn account ("in the red")

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day15 hrs (2012-05-18 12:40:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Also:
http://www.financebanter.co.uk/uk-finance/9223-finding-out-o...

the fundamental concept of moving money by debiting one account and crediting another account for the same amount stays always the same, whether the money is moved between two accounts of the same person at the same local branch or between two different persons based on two different continents. There is always one originating account, from which the money is going out, although that wording may not be explicitly used, or some other wording to the same effect may be used.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : I have seen that more often used in a context of (e.g.) international transfers, where it would (probably) be third-party a/c. I've not had this on UK bank statements for an internal transfer within my own a/cs, nor for describing one of my a/cs outgoing
5 hrs
That's definitely what it is, although the info about the originating account is given in most bank statements in the column ”description” when referring to RECEIVED payments.
Something went wrong...
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