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Nov 4, 2012 15:21
11 yrs ago
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French term

objectifs « emploi » (sorties dynamiques)

French to English Social Sciences Economics Employment, work reintegration
Can you please send me your suggestions on how to translate "sorties dynamiques" which is a term specific to the employment trade (work reintegration).

In French, there are 3 types of "sorties dynamiques" :

1- Les sorties vers l’emploi durable (CDI, CDD)
2- Les sorties vers l’emploi (CDD ou intérim de moins de 6 mois)
3- Les sorties positives (formation + embauche dans une autre SIAE dans le cadre d’un parcours + autres motifs de sorties considérés comme positifs par les acteurs locaux).

merci, thanks!!!
Change log

Nov 4, 2012 15:41: Stéphanie Soudais changed "Language pair" from "English to French" to "French to English"

Nov 5, 2012 11:04: Nikki Scott-Despaigne changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (3): Tony M, Simon Mac, Nikki Scott-Despaigne

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Discussion

Laetitia Chemin (asker) Nov 4, 2012:
Hi Wolf, I am using "active re-entry" which looks really good here, can you please write it as a formal answer so I can award your points? Thanks!
mchd Nov 4, 2012:
sortie = désinscription sortie d'un registre/d'un listing/d'une base de donnée.
Si la "sortie" d'une personne est "dynamique", c'est parce qu'elle a trouvé un emploi : durable (CDI, CDD), simple sortie (CDD ou intérim) ou positive dont l'explication est donnée : formation + embauche dans un autre organisme pour qu'elle poursuive sa formation
Laetitia Chemin (asker) Nov 4, 2012:
hi Wolf, Thank you very much for your input, it's really helpful!!!
Laetitia Chemin (asker) Nov 4, 2012:
Thanks Nikki, here are 2 full sentences in French: 1- Outre les objectifs « emploi » (sorties dynamiques), possibilité de négocier d’autres objectifs en fonction des spécificités locales

2- Trois types de sorties dynamiques contribuent à construire l’objectif emploi :



Wolf Draeger Nov 4, 2012:
The right term might depend on whether you want to keep the FR perspective of leaving unemployment, or the EN view of re-entering employment. I would opt for the latter, as it will read more naturally in English.

How about "active re-entry" (into the labour force)? If you absolutely have to stick to the FR wording, them maybe something like "active exit" or even "active release" (from unemployment), though it sounds awkward in English.

Btw, I would suggest "labour market" for employment trade :-)
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Nov 4, 2012:
@ Laetitia Hello Laetitia, I probably didn't make myself clear, sorry. Here's what I mean. I can see the three types you have listed. The term you are asking for help with is "sorties dynamiques", which appears before the three listed. Your French term in fact appears in a phrase which is in English :
"In French, there are 3 types of "sorties dynamiques" "
followed by the three types. We do not have the original French term in an original French sentence. We do have the types it is describing but not the actual original context. Is that clearer?

Laetitia Chemin (asker) Nov 4, 2012:
Hi Nikki, I have already posted the 3 different types of "sorties" above here. Sorry I don't have any others!
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Nov 4, 2012:
Maybe you could adopt different terms. The word I find difficult here is "sortie". I have a couple of ideas but would need to see more of the original. Could you post the original where "sorties dynamiques" appears please?
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Nov 4, 2012:
The term back-to-work can be excluded here because of the third type of "sortie" described : training and the SIAE.
PS : The familiar term "dole" is written with "le" at the end, "doll" being a "poupée". I do not think we talk about the "employment trade" by the way.
Laetitia Chemin (asker) Nov 4, 2012:
No, in this context... "sorties" means getting out of unemployment (when you're on the doll and you get out of it towards various kinds of work contracts)
Tony M Nov 4, 2012:
Not too sure, Laetitia 'back-to-work' usually means getting people who have been hitherto unemployed back into employment; but here, it looks to me with these 'sorties' we are talking about leaving one job to go to another, aren't we? So i'm not sure that would really ring quite true in this specific case.
Laetitia Chemin (asker) Nov 4, 2012:
I have an idea... To translate "sorties dynamiques" by "back-to-work schemes", what do you guys think?

Proposed translations

+1
2 hrs

"employment" objectives ("dynamic return" to active employment and/or training)

The term "dynamique" is used much more in French than it is in English. In context, I would like to be able to use "positive" in english, but as one of the three types defined is described as "positive" then that is not possible.

I suggest using something fairly French. You might like to use something along the lines I have suggested here. I'd be tempted to put the "dynamic return" part in italics to show that it is a calque from the French :

"employment" objectives (dynamic return to active employment and/or training)

1 - http://www.cdiae.org/IMG/pdf/guide-nouvelles-modalites.pdf

Extract below from page 1 but more info on page 23 too.

« Conséquence de l’application de la LOLF, le passage d’une logique de moyens à une logique de résultats va trouver une traduction dans l’IAE :
• les financements accordés aux SIAE vont l’être au regard des résultats obtenus par la
structure ; ces résultats et donc les financements seront examinés annuellement ;
• les SIAE étant financées au titre de la politique de l’emploi, les indicateurs principaux de résultats vont être des indicateurs de retour à l’emploi, appelés sorties dynamiques* comprenant :
• les sorties vers l’emploi durable,
• les sorties vers un « emploi de transition »,
• les sorties positives ;
• la transparence voulue par la LOLF va se traduire par une négociation, appelée dialogue de gestion, entre les SIAE et les financeurs. C’est dans cette négociation que vont être discutés les objectifs obtenus et à atteindre, ainsi que les financements accordés.
* Sorties dynamiques, sorties vers l’emploi durable, sorties vers un emploi de transition et sorties positives sont définies dans la partie 2 de ce guide. »


http://www3.iris.asso.fr/Faxnet/Faxnet 2008/Faxnet1512conven...

Trois catégories de sorties « dynamiques » sont présentées dans la circulaire qui permettront de « mesurer l’effet emploi d’un passage par une SIAE » (voir annexe 4) :

- Sorties vers l’emploi durable : CDI, CDD ou mission d’intérim de plus de 6 mois, stage ou titularisation dans la fonction publique et création d’entreprises.
- Sorties vers « un emploi de transition » : CDD ou période d’intérim de moins de 6 mois, contrats aidés .
- Sorties positives : formation qualifiante, embauche dans une autre SIAE…
Cette dernière catégorie peut être enrichie localement en intégrant en fonction de contextes particuliers les sorties revendiquées comme positives par la SIAE.

La circulaire prévoit des objectifs à atteindre au terme d’un délai de trois ans :
Un taux de sortie dynamique (somme des trois catégories ci-dessus) de 60% et un taux d’insertion dans l’emploi durable de 25%. Cet objectif est globalisé pour toutes les SIAE. Ces objectifs sont modulables et peuvent être négociés par SIAE et par bassin d’emploi pour chacune des catégories.

Les sorties sont calculées sur la base des personnes ayant une ancienneté d’au moins trois mois dans la SIAE et parvenues au terme de leur période d’essai.

Pour les AI, ETTI, sont considérées comme ayant quitté la structure, toutes les personnes n’ayant pas bénéficié d’une mission pendant 6 mois consécutifs.

NB : A noter quelques incohérences entre les objectifs opérationnels présentés dans la circulaire et les indicateurs prévus dans le projet de loi de finances 2009, notamment pour les ACI qui sont englobés dans l’indicateur de sortie des contrats aidés dans le projet de loi de finances 2009 (voir actualité du 13/10/08 sur le site internet IRIS).

Peer comment(s):

agree John Holland : I'd think that specifiying that it is a return to "active" employment or training already expresses the meaning of "dynamic."
17 hrs
You have a point. One of the difficulties here is that in some of the French official documentation, "les actifs" also include people who are unemployed. I had this in mind when making this suggestion which I think myself reads like an over-translation!
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4 hrs

labour/employment objectives (active re-entry)

As requested :-)

The FR sets the objectives in terms of leaving the ranks of the unemployed, whereas I see it in terms of re-entering the active labour force, which I feel is more natural in English.

This of course needs to be referenced against the use of the term throughout the FR text to make sure the change in perspective doesn't create problems elsewhere in the translation.
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+1
21 hrs

Active reintegration

I believe the term used by Proz for the category (French to English translations [PRO]Social Sciences - Economics / Employment, work reintegration) works well.
Peer comment(s):

agree John Holland
1 hr
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