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Dat. Anc.
remise en cercle
Nov 6, 2012 15:42
11 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

Issu d’une noblesse de robe aux arguments anciens

French to English Art/Literary History
Target = uk
Article for a magazine about François Miron

Issu d’une noblesse de robe aux arguments anciens, il exercera, à partir de 1585, où il est fait conseiller au Parlement de Paris, les fonctions les plus hautes dans l’administration de la cité.

My understanding from this page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobles_of_the_Robe
Is that either you inherited your status of noblesse de robe or you bought it for a large sum.

It would appear that in this case we are talking about the former.
The best thing I can think of so far is : From a family of the noblesse de robe,

I'm open to other suggestions.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +6 descended from a long line of nobles of the robe/gown
2 +5 Born into a long line of aristocratic high court officials
3 claiming to hail from a line of Nobles of the Robe from the Ancien Régime

Discussion

emiledgar Nov 7, 2012:
noblesse de robe not juges nobles I think that it's not "aristocratic high court officials" but rather "a court officials aristocracy" ie these are not aristocrats who are judges but people (families) who by their generations in the functions have created an aristocracy of judges.

Proposed translations

+6
12 mins
Selected

descended from a long line of nobles of the robe/gown

...is how I would understand this.
He clearly inherited his rank, rather than having just purchased it.

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Note added at 14 mins (2012-11-06 15:56:01 GMT)
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Sorry, should of course be capitalized:

"descended from a long line of Nobles of the Robe/Gown"
Peer comment(s):
agree Helen Shiner : I don't think, in this person's case, it matters whether they were descended from an inherited title or one that was bought. The main thing is that they were 'descended from' or 'born into' such a family./Exactly, though I am not for explanations/quotes.
8 mins
Thanks. We have no way of knowing [...] originally bought by the family or bestowed upon it. The main thing [...] François Miron clearly inherited it.//I guess the notes/quotes issue might depend on the intended readership of the magazine in question.
agree philgoddard : I think you'd need to include a few words of explanation - I'd never heard of this.
36 mins
Yes, either as a footnote or in brackets. Thanks!
agree FoundInTrans : Yes probably an annotation would help, Phil is right.
38 mins
Thanks! Certainly wouldn't do any harm!
agree cc in nyc : I would put "nobles of the robe" in quotes to indicate that it's a special term
39 mins
Good idea, thanks!
agree Ricardy Ricot
3 hrs
agree B D Finch
18 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to everyone for your suggestions."
1 hr

claiming to hail from a line of Nobles of the Robe from the Ancien Régime

Hello,

I think that the difficulty here, if any, is translating "aux arguments anciens". I think that this might be best translated by "dating back to the Ancien Régime" (claims/argues back to this period in France for his claim to nobility).


I hope this helps.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Colin Rowe : Hardly "dating back to the Ancien Régime", as we are talking about someone living in 1585, i.e. near the start of said "Ancien Régime" ("XVIe - XVIIIe siècle" as defined here: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancien_Régime ).
1 hr
Well, it's still the Ancien Régime, and this is the period from whence one claims nobility; in other words, nobility in France formally begins during the Ancien Régime. Have a nice day.
neutral Aurelia C : I agree with Colin Rowe about the Ancien Régime. Plus, the text would have mentioned it instead of arguments anciens.
3 hrs
Well, what do you think is meant by the *anciens* after "arguments"? All nobility formally starts during the Ancien Régime in France, imho. Have a nice evening.
neutral B D Finch : More likely dating from the age of Asterix and Obelix.
17 hrs
Yeah, I hear you! Why I waste time answering these questions that are already "fixed" in advance, I do not know. I do like my "hailing from a line" a lot, though. Have a nice day or evening, ...or night.
Something went wrong...
+5
1 hr

Born into a long line of aristocratic high court officials

Plain and simple? I confess I'm unsure of the meaning of "aux arguments anciens", unless it refers to the family's claim on their nobility (estates, historic titles, etc).

Or "high government officials / civil servants".

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Note added at 3 hrs (2012-11-06 18:53:21 GMT)
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Or "...career aristo-bureaucrats", to coin a term :-) ?
Peer comment(s):
agree Colin Rowe : This also works nicely and avoids the need for footnotes, etc. I think the "aux arguments anciens" simply means that the family has a longstanding claim to the title, hence "a long line of...".
54 mins
Thanks Colin.
agree Ricardy Ricot
2 hrs
Thanks Ricardy.
agree Yolanda Broad
4 hrs
Thanks Yolanda.
agree Simon Charass : Yes, and yes for Colin's explanation of "aux arguments anciens"
4 hrs
Thanks Simon; indeed.
agree Letredenoblesse
17 hrs
Thanks Agnes.
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