Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

si jugamos con blancas

English translation:

if we play (as) white

Added to glossary by MPGS
Dec 24, 2012 08:44
11 yrs ago
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Spanish term

si jugamos con blancas

Spanish to English Social Sciences Education / Pedagogy Training in negotiation
This seems a bit strange to me. Why "white" in particular? Does it have some significance that I'm missing?
Can I omit it, because it's clear that we're talking about a chess game? Please try to understand my question. I realize that the literal translation is "If we play with white pieces." I'm trying to figure out why it's being said.


Analicemos la metáfora propuesta por Monzó Sanchez (2003), trasladando el juego a la negociación. "Os propongo que os planteéis la negociación como una partida de ajedrez donde las partes deben buscar una solución (acabar la partida) competitiva o cooperativa (todas las partidas de ajedrez son competitivas sin embargo, las negociaciones pueden ser también cooperativas). El tablero es la mesa negociadora, las variables son las fichas blancas y negras, hay muchos peones, hay alfiles, torres, caballos y están la reina y el rey. Recuerda que hay que conocer todas las variables y estimar los movimientos para posibles intercambios".

Al final de partida hay un acuerdo; puede ser que ganen las blancas o las negras, dependerá de la estrategia que haya llevado cada uno. En estos casos se darán las situaciones ganar/perder o perder/ ganar de la negociación, en ambas, una de las partes ha defendido mejor sus intereses y ambas han cooperado (han acercado posturas), pero una lo ha hecho mejor que la otra. La que mejor ha defendido sus intereses ha ganado y la otra ha perdido.

Quedamos en tablas: Las tablas en el ajedrez, la situación ganar/ ganar (los competitivos lo entenderán como un perder/perder, los jugadores de ajedrez sentimos frustración al llegar a esta situación **si jugamos con blancas** para estos será un perder/ perder, pero en la negociación es la solución ganar/ ganar). Si lo vemos desde el punto de vista en el que las dos partes han intercambiado variables y acaban en una situación que ninguno gana más que el otro, ambos han cedido por igual. Los dos han variado su posición inicial, han acercado posturas, han intercambiado variables y han llegado a un final, pero los dos siguen con fichas en el tablero que no han intercambiado. El valor de estas variables es importante para ambos, tan importante que las han defendido hasta el final y no están dispuestos a concederlas.
Change log

Dec 27, 2012 08:56: MPGS Created KOG entry

Discussion

Muriel Vasconcellos (asker) Dec 26, 2012:
Thanks to all With a special thanks to Charles for his explanations.
Muriel Vasconcellos (asker) Dec 26, 2012:
Refinements I searched on ["play white"+ chess] an got 46,000 hits (it appears that capital W is often used). Then I searched on ["play as white"+ chess] and got 260,000 hits - so I think it's more common. I'm going to go with that and capitalize the W, which will make it clearer to readers like me who don't play chess.
Cinnamon Nolan Dec 24, 2012:
US: to play AS white Hi, Muriel. Note the difference for American English. (Even "to be white" is used, but the reference to chess becomes less obvious in your context; so I'd go with "to play as white".
Charles Davis Dec 24, 2012:
Yes it was! I'm a terrible chess-player, by the way; my twelve-year-old son usually beats me (even if I'm playing white).
Muriel Vasconcellos (asker) Dec 24, 2012:
@Charles Of course it all makes sense now. I'm adding the final paragraph below, which says just what you said. (This was actually a good question, wasn't it?)

Final quote:
"Para que se dé una solución ganar/ganar en las negociaciones, ambas partes deben defender sus intereses y cooperar. Al contrario que en el ajedrez que se defienden los intereses y se quiere ganar. **Si analizamos las tablas desde el punto de vista de la negociación, las entendemos como soluciones posibles a un acuerdo en el que ambas partes se sienten ganadoras, aunque las tablas en el ajedrez podrían hacer sentirse a alguna de las partes perdedoras (las blancas)."
Muriel Vasconcellos (asker) Dec 24, 2012:
@Charles Of course, not that it has been explained to me, I understand that it's meaningful. I was completely in the dark on this one.
Charles Davis Dec 24, 2012:
So this should not be omitted. A chess player will see a draw as perder/perder when playing white, but not when playing black. In fact it is not as simple as that; frustration or relief at a draw depends on how the game has gone. If black had an advantage but failed to convert it into a win, he/she will be frustrated and white will be relieved. This happens all the time. But the phrase "si jugamos con blancas" definitely has an important function here, for the reasons stated.
Charles Davis Dec 24, 2012:
The theoretical advantage for white is small, but most theoreticians agree that it exists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess
Charles Davis Dec 24, 2012:
@ Muriel The point is that the player with the white pieces makes the first move. If the players are of similar skill, this means that white has an advantage; white should win. At the highest level, you normally expect to win with white and lose with black. It's a bit like holding your serve and breaking serve in tennis. So a win with black is more of a win, as it were. And even to get a draw with black is a kind of victory, whereas to draw with white is a kind of defeat, a failure to win.

Proposed translations

+6
17 mins
Selected

if we play white

chess speak!

Black or White? - Chess.com

Everyone i talk to who knows anything about chess would rather play white than
black, because apparently that One Move wins the game. I rarely play as white ...
www.chess.com/forum/view/general/black-or-white6

:)

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Note added at 3 days9 mins (2012-12-27 08:54:32 GMT) Post-grading
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my pleasure!
:)
Peer comment(s):

agree Charles Davis
6 mins
thank you, Charles. Seasonal greetings! :)
agree Cristina Gonzalez : My 6 year old ALWAYS wants to play white...LOL
1 hr
thank you, Cristina. My grandchildren too! Seasonal greetings! :)
agree James A. Walsh
1 hr
thank you, James. Seasonal greetings! :)
agree Cinnamon Nolan : Just discovered another UK/US difference: in American English, "to play AS white" is much more common.
2 hrs
Thank u Cinnamon. Nouances make the difference. Seasonal greetings! :)
agree Yvonne Gallagher
3 hrs
thank you, gallagy2. Seasonal greetings! :)
agree Domingo Trassens : You are right!
7 hrs
thank you, Domingo. Seasonal greetings! :)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks so much! "
6 hrs

start with an advantage

It might be that since white moves first (which some think is an advantage), the expectancy of winning is higher and a therefore a draw (lose/lose) would be considered undesirable?
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