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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

devant la crainte

English translation:

due to concerns about

Added to glossary by Kelly Harrison
Jul 10, 2013 20:38
10 yrs ago
4 viewers *
French term

devant la crainte

Non-PRO French to English Medical General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters in a medical/cardiology context
Monsieur a été hospitalisé dans notre service ****devant la crainte*** d'un nouvel accident ischémique.

Merci d'avance!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +3 due to concerns about
2 +4 in view of the risk
4 +2 in view of the concerns that X might have a new attack
4 +1 because of the high risk for a new ischemic attack or further vascular events.
5 due to fear of ....
3 +1 in case / lest
Change log

Jul 10, 2013 21:42: Tony M changed "Language pair" from "English to French" to "French to English"

Jul 10, 2013 22:58: writeaway changed "Field (specific)" from "Medical: Cardiology" to "General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters" , "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "in a medical/cardiology context"

Discussion

Kelly Harrison (asker) Jul 13, 2013:
@BD Finch Thank you :D There never seems to be enough time for anything these days!
Kelly Harrison (asker) Jul 13, 2013:
@ Tony Good point. I am sorry to have wasted your time perhaps unneccessarily - however the deadline was extremely short in this case (no excuse, I know); although it is true that one often needs to have a correct translation / understanding of the text in chronological order. I appreciate your feedback and thankyou for reminding me to be a little less systematic in my work. :)
liz askew Jul 13, 2013:
Dear oh dear.
Tony M Jul 13, 2013:
@ BDF Well, yes... though I wouldn't have thought this sort of report would have run to dozens of pages?
I must admit, I personally always go right through to the end of a document before posting here, as one does so often find that things earlier in the document are explained by what comes later, to the extent that sometimes a KudoZ question becomes unnecessary.

But there, that's just my own particular workflow ;-)
B D Finch Jul 12, 2013:
@Tony You are assuming, of course, that Kelly had already read the report through to the end before posting the question. While that is the ideal way we should be able to work, there often isn't enough time.
Tony M Jul 12, 2013:
@ Asker Thanks, Kelly: that was REALLY important extra context that you ought to have given us right from the outset, it would have saved an awful lot of what now turns out to have been pointless discussion.
Kelly Harrison (asker) Jul 12, 2013:
NB: Especially since at the end of the report the conclusion was that the patient had NOT suffered an Ischaemic stroke because no evience could be found on the MRI and DWI scans.
Kelly Harrison (asker) Jul 12, 2013:
Hello everyone Sorry not to have joined in until now but I have been busy. The translation has now been submitted, so for your information I wanted to let you know that I went with "suspected" in the end as that seemed the most logical and likely choice. Thank you kindly :)
Wolf Draeger Jul 12, 2013:
@Kelly Does your context make clear if the sentiment is on the part of the doctor or patient? If the former, I would go with a word like 'concern', but if the latter, then 'fear' is perfectly acceptable.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jul 11, 2013:
Crainte/peur Both are translated by "fear" in English, but the emotion is toned down in the French way of using "crainte". Of course, to face the fear that, to fear that etc are all legitimate expressions, potentially applicable for "devant la crainte que/de". However, the nuance makes all the difference and in fine-tuning, differences of opinion are arise. They are necessary and extremely useful.
liz askew Jul 11, 2013:
I don't interpret in medical terminology, I just translate what the physician/nurse states. I never make assumptions.
Tony M Jul 11, 2013:
@ Liz I think we all know that dictionaries only give a very small part of the picture, and few enough clues as to the actual way words are used in real life situations and as to their cultural appropriateness (or not).
I am well aware of the semantic niceties of such words as 'crainte', 'peur' (and while we're at it, 'redouter' too) — but way, way over and above attempts at mere word-for-word dictionary translations, one needs to be acutely aware of the appropriateness and register of the terms used.
This appears to be a relatively formal entry in this patient's notes etc. (I'm assuming it is not just a hasty PostIt between medical colleagues!), and as such, I would judge 'crainte' to be entirely appropriate in the source language, whereas IMHO any similar slavish use of 'fear' in the target language would be out of register and out of place.
Naturally, in EN we might say "I'm afraid he might..." — and that would be acceptable and equivalent to the use of 'crainte' in FR.
liz askew Jul 11, 2013:
@Tony:
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/crainte/20149

8
Forum
nom féminin
 Fait de craindre quelque chose, quelqu'un, état de quelqu'un qui éprouve un sentiment de peur, de recul ; peur, appréhension : La crainte de l'échec le paralysait.
 Appréhension d'un danger, d'une douleur, d'un mal à venir (souvent pluriel) : J'ai des craintes à son sujet.
liz askew Jul 11, 2013:
As for context, let's have the French context, not summaries or assumptions.
liz askew Jul 11, 2013:
Fear is the word here. I don't translate medical for nothing. We are not editors.
Tony M Jul 11, 2013:
@ Liz "Logical" is all very well, but Asker's information seems to somewhat contradict this, as Kelly has told us that "The patient seems to be showing symptoms indicative of a CVA having taken place." — so it looks as if they are not actually sure yet whether he has actually suffered a TIA or not.
liz askew Jul 11, 2013:
This person has obviously already had a stroke, so they fear he will have another one! Pretty logical.
Kelly Harrison (asker) Jul 10, 2013:
The patient seems to be showing symptoms indicative of a CVA having taken place. So in this case I suppose one would say "suspected". Do people actually get admitted to hospital pre-emptively?
philgoddard Jul 10, 2013:
Agree with polyglot There's no right or wrong way of saying it. Of course, it's possible that he was admitted because they suspected he'd had a stroke, rather than he was about to have one, but presumably you know that from the context.
Kelly Harrison (asker) Jul 10, 2013:
Yes I know that... I am looking for the "correct" medical way to say it :)
polyglot45 Jul 10, 2013:
this isn't really a strictly medical question it means literally - in the face of the fear of - in other words, they bunged the guy in hospital because they were afraid of him having a second attack

Proposed translations

+3
16 hrs
Selected

due to concerns about

more neutral than some other options

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2013-07-11 13:29:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or, following concerns about
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : I think this could be a good solution, to avoid the pitfalls already discussed at some length!
4 hrs
thanks Tony
disagree liz askew : The point here is that doctors don't use neutral language, and often nor do patients. This is a genuine issue.
19 hrs
but was this written by a doctor?
agree writeaway : yes. agree is also to counter the disagree. I doubt that doctors 'feared' anything. More likely they were concerned or even worried. Not 'in fear'.
19 hrs
thanks writeaway
agree Wolf Draeger : Or "out of concern that/for".
1 day 2 hrs
thanks Wolf
agree Yolanda Broad
2 days 4 hrs
thanks Yolanda
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+4
1 hr

in view of the risk

I don't know if this is the 'official' medical way of expressing it, if indeed there is such a thing; but I certainly think it would be more natural to express it this way in EN in a document of this sort of register.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2013-07-10 21:45:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In everyday language, we'd probably say 'for fear of a...' — but I'm not so sure that would sit very comfortably in the register here.

I suppose it all depends on whether there was literally a degree of fear, due to some specific feature of this case (such as early onset symptoms, etc.) — or whether it was simply a known, on-going risk
Note from asker:
Thanks Tony, this sounds about right - this or "due to".. still I wouldn't mind getting a second opinion from a pro-pro ;)
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : I don't know why you give your answers such a low degree of confidence, especially as they're usually right :-) 2 means low confidence.
20 mins
Thanks, Phil! Well, for one thing, I'm not a medical expert; and for another, in this case, we don't know the full story, which might have a bearing on how to interpret it.
agree AllegroTrans
2 hrs
Thanks, C!
agree Kévin Bernier
2 hrs
Merci, Kévin !
agree Rachel Fell
3 hrs
Thanks, Rachel!
disagree liz askew : fear/I have resubmitted my answer with all my evidence, you have provided none. Dangerous in medical translation.
10 hrs
Like I said, FR has at least 2 words for 'fear', and 'crainte' is acceptable in a formal context, whereas the same is not true of the single option 'fear' in EN. It's a question of sensitivity to register and using culturally-appropriate language.
agree B D Finch : I agree with you based on the same criteria that cause Liz to disagree. I think English usage would tend to be more cautious and possibly have a higher awareness of weighing one's words to avoid any legal consequences..
11 hrs
Thanks, B! :-) Yes, and a tendency to avoid emotionally-loaded language that might be more appropriate when addressing a lay-person, for example.
neutral writeaway : for the record, I don't agree with taking this to a risk. crainte and risk are too far apart imo.
1 day 11 hrs
Thanks, W/A! In my experience of dealing with doctors and hospitals, I think the use of 'risk' for crainte in this sort of context would reflect equivalent usage; but I thank you for your expert opinion.
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

because of the high risk for a new ischemic attack or further vascular events.

Higher Risk of Further Vascular Events Among Transient Ischemic ...
stroke.ahajournals.org/content/35/10/2313.full.pdf - Traduire cette page
de F Purroy - 2004 - Cité 216 fois - Autres articles
Background and Purpose—Recently, a new definition of transient ischemic attack ... large-artery occlusive disease have a higher risk of further vascular events.
Note from asker:
Thank you ! :D
Peer comment(s):
agree PLR TRADUZIO (X)
1 hr
Thank you.
neutral AllegroTrans : high risk OF; and I think you're over translating when you add "further vascular attacks" - it may be implied but it's not in the ST
3 hrs
it is definitely implied.
disagree liz askew : over-translation, adding to the text.
9 hrs
I wish you woud stay neuter Liz. The French is broad enough to prevent you from saying any such thing.
agree Tony M : I like this way of expressing it, but am wary of over-translation, with the addition of 'high'; I agree 'risk' is used slightly differently by medical personnel, compared with the everyday use of the word, and I really DO think it fits OK here.
12 hrs
I don't see any over translation if "crainte" is expressed by physicians Tony.
Something went wrong...
+2
1 day 11 hrs
French term (edited): devant la crainte de

in view of the concerns that X might have a new attack

This one is all about pitch. The French "crainte", whilst distilling some of the fore of emotion conveyed in "peur", is nonetheless related to fear that something may happen.

The solution may simply be to get our heads out of the French construction - which does exists, but which I would consider more literary - and move towards a more usual English way of doing this. The French does not use a verbal construction here, where in English it would be more natural to do so, particularly with a modal. After all, the idea is risk, and that might be considered a little strong. All the subtlety of our modal auxiliaries should get roung this. Adding nuance in English is often about playing around with verbs. Modal auxiliaries were made for this type of situation!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-07-12 07:58:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"In view of concerns" is not that important; a number of other expressions are possible. I do think the key lies in "might".
Peer comment(s):
disagree liz askew : For the record. This is adding to the source text.
35 mins
agree writeaway : For the record. there is nothing wrong with this at all.
47 mins
agree Tony M : Yes, I think 'concerns' is a good solution, and I wholeheartedly agree with your comments about re-working to make it sound natural in EN. / @ Jane: that could apply in many cases, but Nikki's answer (and comments) include an important extra contribution
9 hrs
neutral Jane F : this is very similar to my own suggestion!
11 hrs
agree Yolanda Broad
1 day 9 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 day 11 hrs

due to fear of ....

...
https://www.amhrt.org/idc/groups/heart-public/.../ucm_307155...‎
by JD MORELAND - 2009 - Cited by 9 - Related articles
hospital. To examine the results stratified by the patient's acute score (541, 41–80, 480) on the ... This was a cohort study of 209 patients who had been admitted to hospital because of stroke. ..... These included fear of another stroke, fear of.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-07-12 08:18:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fear of another stroke hos...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-07-12 08:19:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fear of another stroke hos...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-07-12 08:20:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

it is only human to fear having another stroke, from anybody's point of view.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-07-12 08:22:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Helping families reduce the risk of second strokes | Stroke Association
www.stroke.org.uk › ... › Who and what we fund › Current projects‎
My research is focusing on developing an intervention that will help survivors address the issues around the fear and risk of having another stroke. I'm incredibly ..

so, how would you translate the above?

fear and risk

crainte et risque???


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-07-12 08:23:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Helping families reduce the risk of second strokes | Stroke Association
www.stroke.org.uk › ... › Who and what we fund › Current projects‎
My research is focusing on developing an intervention that will help survivors address the issues around *****the fear and risk*****of having another stroke. I'm incredibly ...

so how would we translate fear and risk?
they are not synonyms

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-07-12 08:24:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Reducing The Risk of A Subsequent Stroke | Stroke Prevention ...
www.nasam.org/english/prevention-reducing_subsequent_stroke...‎
For people who have suffered a stroke or a transient ischaemic attack (TIA), there is alway**** the fear of another stroke****. But ***even though the risk ****is greater than ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-07-12 08:25:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Warning many stroke victims feel they have been abandoned ...
www.heraldscotland.com/.../warning-many-stroke-victims-feel...‎
May 1, 2013 - ****Dr Christine McAlpine, lead stroke clinician from Greater Glasgow and Clyde health board, said: "Depression, anxiety and fear of another stroke***** ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-07-12 08:27:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

polyglot is obviously the only other translator who agrees with me.





--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-07-12 08:29:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Both patient and physician are aware of the danger and fear of having another stroke.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-07-12 08:31:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

La mémoire Memory - L'Institut Servier
www.institut-servier.com/download/Memoire.pdf
*****La crainte de la maladie****** ..... Vervliet B. Beyond extinction: erasing human fear responses and preventing ...... alors que dans l'autre, la situation était tout à fait nouvelle. ...... similaire à celui rencontré dans l'accident ischémique transitoire, c'est-à-dire ...... another relating to the cell mechanisms that create them (the “how”).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-07-12 08:32:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

La mémoire Memory - L'Institut Servier
www.institut-servier.com/download/Memoire.pdf
La crainte de la maladie ..... Vervliet B. Beyond extinction: erasing human fear responses and preventing ...... alors que dans l'autre, la situation était tout à fait nouvelle. ...... similaire à celui rencontré dans l'accident ischémique transitoire, c'est-à-dire ...... another relating to the cell mechanisms that create them (the “how”).
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : the idea of a doctor admitting someone 'out of fear' is hard to accept. Out of concern, worry etc. Polyglot's 'because they were afraid of' expresses the idea but is wrong register for a written report. Note this is a neutral, not a door-slamming disagree
47 mins
I translate what the text states. As for cultural niceties, this is irrelevant here.
neutral Tony M : The refs. you quote all use 'fear' in a quite different sense, and here one might imagine the FR could use 'peur' and 'risque' — though note that the syntax would have to be changed anyway. / Well that's OK, we can agree to disagree ;-)
8 hrs
I still don't agree with you
neutral Drmanu49 : Agree with Tony.
9 hrs
I still don't agree with Tony.
Something went wrong...
+1
1 day 19 hrs

in case / lest

Thought I'd throw my hat into the ring...I think this expression is being somewhat over-interpreted; whether one includes the word "fear" or not is not the point, as long as the meaning is conveyed accurately. It's not a matter of medical jargon.

"Lest" may sound too archaic/literary and so out of place here.
Example sentence:

The patient was hospitalised in case of a new ischaemic incident.

The patient was hospitalised lest he suffer a new ischaemic incident.

Reference:

http://www.wordnik.com/words/lest#related

Peer comment(s):
agree Yolanda Broad : Good neutral solution. (I especially like "lest" which implies a level of fear.)
2 mins
Thanks Yolanda :)
neutral Tony M : Can't quite agree, Wolf; 'in case of' is IMHO too neutral; 'devant la crainte' is IMHO more causal, and I think this (slightly) undertranslates it.
40 mins
Fair enough; tks Tony.
Something went wrong...
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