This question was closed without grading. Reason: Aucune réponse acceptable
Aug 29, 2013 13:16
10 yrs ago
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français term

condamner solidairement et à défaut in solidum

français vers anglais Droit / Brevets Droit (général) corporate litigation between various firms
This is similar to but NOT the same phrase as the question asked on 5 July 2004:

"Condamner solidairement et à défaut in solidum les sociétés ABC et DEF à payer aux sociétés GHI et JKL" :

Many thanks for your help.

Discussion

Swiss Bankers (asker) Sep 2, 2013:
I don't feel confident enough to award points or add to the glossary.
Tim Webb Aug 31, 2013:
Keep "in solidum" - or solidarily Yes, it may be better to keep "in solidum" in its original form - but "solidarily" should do as well. <br><br>This article (FR-ca) may help: http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/harmonization/bijurilex...
<br><br>
Maybe the "à défaut" could be reduced to just "or", as in the article at this reference.

That would give: order ABC and DEF, jointly and severally, or solidarily, to pay ...

Swiss Bankers (asker) Aug 31, 2013:
How about this? "jointly and severally, or, otherwise [or perhaps 'alternatively')] in solidum"
Swiss Bankers (asker) Aug 30, 2013:
Bridge's (FWIW) "in solidum" = "restricted joint and several liability"

"solidaire" = "joint and several liability"
Swiss Bankers (asker) Aug 29, 2013:
anyone want to jump into the pool with a possible answer?
writeaway Aug 29, 2013:
I was mistaken solidairement means jointly, not jointly and severally. That is in most Fr-En dictionaries as well.
writeaway Aug 29, 2013:
http://www.juridicaldictionary.com/In_solidum.htm In solidum

Latin term meaning for the whole. Where there are several co-obligants bound "in solidum", each is liable in full payment or performance, and the editor may choose which of the obligants he will sue. Every person whose name appears on a bill, whether as acceptor or endorser, is liable in full payment of its contents although he may after payment do diligence against the others for relief.
philgoddard Aug 29, 2013:
But what do they mean by "à défaut in solidum"? Surely "in solidum" is just the Latin for "solidairement"?
writeaway Aug 29, 2013:
Is there a particular problem? solidairement (normally jointly and severally) and in solidum are boilerplate legalese as is condamner and à défaut is in all dicos.
http://www.dictionnaire-juridique.com/definition/in-solidum....

So is there a special problem here?

Proposed translations

7 heures
français term (edited): condamner solidairement et à défaut in solidum les sociétés ABC et DEF

to enter judgment by default jointly and severally against companies ABC and DEF

[PDF]
Judgment by Default Jointly and Severally against All ...
Adobe PDF
Title: Judgment by Default Jointly and Severally against All Defendants and Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law Keywords: ExpyFi, LLC d/b/a www.expyfi.com ...
www.tn.gov/attorneygeneral/cases/expyfi/expyfi09.pdf
[PDF]
FIL/2D
Adobe PDF
moves for judgment by default, jointly and severally in the amount of $2,009,253.82, against Defendants Caroline H. Worthy, Southeast Insurance Advisors, LLC, and ...
www.americantradeliquidation.com/pdf/Motion Default ...
Expyfi - TN.gov
Judgment by Default Jointly and Severally Against All Defendants and Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law (May 13, 2008) This list includes only significant ...
tennessee.gov/attorneygeneral/cases/expyfi/expyfi.html - Cached

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Note added at 7 hrs (2013-08-29 20:44:45 GMT)
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Code de Commerce
Article L470-1

La juridiction peut condamner solidairement les personnes morales au paiement des amendes prononcées contre leurs dirigeants en vertu des dispositions du présent livre et des textes pris pour son application.



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Note added at 7 hrs (2013-08-29 20:47:31 GMT)
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en s'obligeant et obligeant solidairement > binds (himself ...
French term or phrase: en s'obligeant et obligeant solidairement ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_and_several_liability see also Frédéric Houbert, ...
www.proz.com/.../law_general/...obligeant_solidairement.htm... - Cached
Note from asker:
thank you
Peer comment(s):

neutral Tim Webb : The ST says "à défaut" (failing that), not "par défaut (by default; in the defendant's absence).
20 heures
yes I think you have a point, 2 things are being pleaded as alternatives, do make a better suggestion
Something went wrong...
1 jour 4 heures

jointly and severally (by virtue of contractual/legal obligations or legal precedent)

Solidiairement and "in solidum" are both forms of joint and several liability. The difficulty comes from the fact that, under French law, parties can only be "solidaires" by virtue of an agreement or the law. So, in this case, if ABC and DEF never agreed to be jointly and severally bound, and one of them is unable to pay, the judge will not be able to order the other to pay in its place.
That's where legal precedent comes to the rescue :
"Maintenant, concernant l'obligation in solidum, il faut remonter au XIXème siècle en matière délictuelle. Le juge s'est retrouvé devant des situations où il n'était pas juste de condamner une seule personne : par exemple lorsqu'il y avait plusieurs coauteurs du dommage et que la victime devait établir un recours contre chacun d'eux séparément, en supportant leur insolvabilité éventuelle. La jurisprudence a dégagé un principe de solidarité, non prévue par la loi, afin que les victimes puissent demander réparation de la totalité de leur préjudice au coauteur le plus solvable. " (http://www.juristudiant.com/forum/difference-entre-solidarit... )
See also:
"Pour la jurisprudence, la pluralité des auteurs du délit ne diminue pas la responsabilité de chacun, et la victime peut exiger le paiement de la totalité par un seul, sauf le recours de ce dernier contre ses co-obligés" (http://avocats.fr/space/albert.caston/content/l-obligation-i...

So the part of my answer in brackets is less of a translation than an explanation...
Note from asker:
thank you
Peer comment(s):

neutral AllegroTrans : happy to see your agreement with "J&S" but I think you have missed the point that 2 alternatives are being pleaded here
4 heures
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1225 jours
Reference:

After the event, also trying to determine the distinction

Taken from:http://www.juristudiant.com/forum/difference-entre-solidarit...

- l'obligation in solidum résulte, quant à elle, de la responsabilité délictuelle.
- la responsabilité est dite solidaire quand elle résulte de la loi ou d'une clause contractuelle,



Taken from: http://3bacdroitfusl.unblog.fr/2009/12/23/obligation-solidai...

> Premièrement, pourriez vous me réexpliquer la différence entre une obligation solidaire et une obligation in solidum, j’ai toujours cru qu’elles étaient les mêmes si ce n’est au niveau des sources, la première résultant selon moi de la volonté des parties ou de la loi et la deuxième étant une création jurisprudentielle pour appliquer la solidarité là où elle n’a pas été prévue.
> Deux points distinguent ces obligations:
1) effectivement, et c’est la principale différence, leurs sources
2) Les effets « secondaires » de la solidarité passive ne sont pas applicables aux obligations in solidum
Le Code civil prévoit, en effet, plusieurs effets « secondaires » à la solidarité passive : l’interruption de la prescription (article 1206), en cas de mise en demeure (article 1207), d’appel, etc.
Something went wrong...
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