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This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Jun 28, 2014 20:24
9 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

Mitwisser

German to English Social Sciences History
Ein anderes Beispiel für einen NS Mörder und seine Mitwisser lässt sich aus einem Schreiben des Gestapo....
Proposed translations (English)
4 +6 accessories
3 +1 accomplices after the fact
4 tacit accomplices
2 fellow travelers

Discussion

Helen Shiner Jul 17, 2014:
@alirob Thanks for letting us know. Just for future reference, what you could do in such circumstances is ask the person whose help you most valued to post an answer, if they haven't already, so that you can assign points (as a way of saying thank you), thus closing the question and automatically sending all respondents an idea of what you chose. Hope to see you here again.
alirob (asker) Jul 17, 2014:
Apologies from a newbie to this forum My thinking was most in tune with that of Kirsten Bodart. Following is the original paragraph followed by my translation:

Man muss solche Briefe lesen oder Augenzeugen hören, um die Judenmorde der Nationalsozialisten als etwas zu begreifen, was uns Deutsche angeht. Wenn der Kreis der Täter auch klein war, Mitwisser gab es reichlich. Ihr Schweigen nach dem Krieg half mit, dass die meisten Deutschen noch heute die Morde als etwas ansehen, was sich im femen Russland, Polen oder sonst wo abspielte: " Was gehen uns die Morde in Polen oder Russland an? Was haben wir damit zu tun"?


One has to read such letters or listen to eyewitnesses in order to comprehend how the murder of the Jews by the Nazis has affected us Germans. Although the circle of actual perpetrators was small, many Germans (Mitwisser) had turned a blind eye to the crimes. After the war the silence of those who knew of the atrocities helped most Germans, even today, to view the murders as events that took place in faraway Russia or Poland or elsewhere: “Why should the murders in Poland or Russia concern us? What did we have to do with them?”

I tried to submit this explanation before,but it disappeared trying to edit it.
Helen Shiner Jul 17, 2014:
@alirob I've just noticed that you closed this 'with no acceptable answer' given as the reason. Given the time and energy people offered you, could you please let us know what you did choose in the end?
Kirsten Bodart Jul 1, 2014:
In the know In this context I believe the concept of the 'Mitwisser' is broader than its purely legal definition as 'accessory' or 'accomplice, though. As Horst says, it refers to the mere fact that the people talked about were 'in the know'. An accessory at least fails to report the crime or its impending nature (or lends assistance outside of the crime itself, like emotional or financial, or even encouragement), whereas here we are basically talking about many people who weren't even involved with the murderers themselves, but heard about it or heard rumours and things and didn't think about these crimes as crimes or didn't believe they happened.
I think actually that a translation with 'in the know' might go nicely here, as the legal definition is not really a vast concern in this text, I don't think.
Slindon Jul 1, 2014:
Sympathizer This may be nit-picking but to me sympathizer suggests some kind of approval, whereas a Mitwisser can be quite neutral: he is knowing without doing.
I also thought of 'bystander' but here again a bystander is more of an onlooker who does nothing whereas a Mitwisser knows what's going on without necessarily observing it. 'Mitwisser' is a bit tricky!
billcorno (X) Jun 30, 2014:
Using this link from Andrew Swift, I'm suggesting "sympathiser."
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/government_polit...
Ramey Rieger (X) Jun 30, 2014:
confidant turns up in this context quite often.
Horst Huber (X) Jun 30, 2014:
The old story. We are to establish how a given form of conduct described in one language is treated in the legal system of a country of a different language. So if a jurisdiction treats a "Mitwisser" as "accessory" or "... after the fact" and your text is to be used in that jurisdiction, run with it. But this is not not translating "Mitwisser", which is about the person's knowledge only. The future historian will want to know what "Mitwisser" was actually intended to convey. Also, in Helen's reference text a clear distinction is made between "knowing" or awareness of something and "aiding and abetting".
Helen Shiner Jun 29, 2014:
@Wendy In fact, Kim does not suggest that, he suggests 'accessory' is more common. Nonetheless, accomplice after the fact, also being correct, has the advantage that in its shortened form, 'accomplice', it has no double meaning to distract the reader. Nazis were, after all, well known for their regalia! Depending on the target audience, which does not look to be academic, and, therefore, unlikely to have room for footnotes to explain, I would go with the solution that is clear from the start.
Wendy Streitparth Jun 29, 2014:
As Kim points out, I think accessory after the fact is more common.
Helen Shiner Jun 29, 2014:
@Horst Please read my references for a definition of 'accomplice AFTER THE FACT' which is someone who knows about, though does not participate in, a crime, and who does not report it, perhaps shielding the perpetrator in some way, certainly impeding justice being done.
Horst Huber (X) Jun 29, 2014:
To be a "Mitwisser" you merely have to be in the know, before, during or after. An accomplice would be a "Mittäter" and someone can become one by assiting in an escape etc.
Helen Shiner Jun 28, 2014:
@alirob Pleasure. Welcome to Kudoz.
alirob (asker) Jun 28, 2014:
Thanks to Helen and Kim. This is my first experience with this website. You have been very helpful.
Helen Shiner Jun 28, 2014:
@alirob Then in this case, they may be termed 'accomplices after the fact' - see http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/coconspirator/
alirob (asker) Jun 28, 2014:
Thanks for the quick response Helen. I also thought of "accomplice" but the context implies not an accomplice, but someone who knows about an event but does not tell anyone. Here is another sentence:

"Doch der Kreis der Mitwisser war weit größer als der Kreis der aktiv Beteiligten, und es waren auch nicht nur Deutsche an den Untaten beteiligt."
Helen Shiner Jun 28, 2014:
@alirob Please provide the full sentence. With the little you have given us so far, I would suggest 'accomplice' - someone who also knows about a crime. Would that fit?

Proposed translations

+6
18 mins

accessories

Taschenwörterbuch Recht – R.Lister / K. Veth
Mitwisser – accessory, person concealing knowledge of a crime

Accessory
Aiding or contributing in a secondary way or assisting in or contributing to as a subordinate.
In Criminal Law, contributing to or aiding in the commission of a crime. One who, without being present at the commission of an offense, becomes guilty of such offense, not as a chief actor, but as a participant, as by command, advice, instigation, or concealment; either before or after the fact or commission.
One who aids, abets, commands, or counsels another in the commission of a crime.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/accessory



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2014-06-28 20:45:13 GMT)
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In some jurisdictions, an accessory is distinguished from an accomplice, who normally is present at the crime and participates in some way. An accessory must generally have knowledge that a crime is being, or will be committed. A person with such knowledge may become an accessory by helping or encouraging the criminal in some way, or simply by failing to report the crime to proper authority. The assistance to the criminal may be of any type, including emotional or financial assistance as well as physical assistance or concealment. - Wikipedia
Peer comment(s):
neutral Helen Shiner : Would one not have to express it as 'accessories to the crime'? It sounds rather odd expressed simply as 'accessories'. Apologies for changing my mind.../There were also not accessories unless they were involved in the crime - it needs 'after the fact'.
1 min
In the first instance of the term, I would use "accessories to his crimes" and just "accessories" in the next sentence. They weren't accomplices unless they actively participated.
agree philgoddard : I still don't feel we have very much context, though.
1 hr
agree writeaway : also backed by Langenscheidt.
3 hrs
agree BrigitteHilgner
9 hrs
agree Edith Kelly
11 hrs
agree Hans-Jochen Trost : Oxford and Collins dictionaries agree as well
20 hrs
agree Johanna Timm, PhD
21 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
28 mins

accomplices after the fact

See discussion entry and link to ref.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 34 mins (2014-06-28 20:58:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

See also: http://www.shouselaw.com/aiding-abetting.html
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : can you show any refs backing the actual translation and not just showing that the term exists in English?
3 hrs
The OP has made it clear in the context provided in the discussion box that the dictionary definition is not appropriate in this non-legal, historical text.
agree Lancashireman : Just 'accomplices', as this is a non-legal context. Maybe something longer: 'those who were complicit'. Agree with your reservations about 'accessories'.
3 hrs
Thanks Andrew, the 'after the fact' bit is key here. But I agree that one might use just 'accomplices' once the meaning is established.
neutral Kim Metzger : I read your references. Did you mean "accessory after the fact"?
7 hrs
It appears both are in use depending on the jurisdiction.
Something went wrong...
15 hrs

tacit accomplices

I think expressions such as 'accessories' and 'accomplices after the fact' may be too dry and legal for the context (of which there is admittedly little). The essential thing about 'Mitwisser' seems to me to be their passivity and both accessories and accomplices have an element of activity about them. Hence the 'tacit'.

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Note added at 16 hrs (2014-06-29 12:31:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The word 'initiate' has just occurred to me, i.e. 'another example of a Nazi murderer and his initiates'....
Worth considering perhaps.
Something went wrong...
16 hrs

fellow travelers

I'd call it in this case, in the sense of people turning a blind eye
Note from asker:
I decided to go with: 'those who turned a blind eye'. Thanks to Andrew Swift.
"fellow traveler" would be better translated as "Mitläufer".
Peer comment(s):
neutral Lancashireman : 'those who turned a blind eye' would be a good option if the length of the text allows. I see you were also a contributor on this associated question, Klaus: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/government_polit...
10 mins
Something went wrong...
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